Jason Taylor 0:00

Welcome to this edition of the People's Playbook Podcast. I'm gonna be really transparent here. I'm pretty stoked and pumped to have our guest on today. Chris Fisher is the founder of and brand president, obviously, of Shine Window Care and Holiday Lighting. And he spent a long time building this franchise. He's spent over 25 years actually building it right now. What I like about Chris is he's rooted in leadership. He's very altruistic in what he does. He likes to serve, he likes to build team cultures. He's a very humble leader, and it's hard to actually give him a compliment because he always refers to the team. He started this back in 1999. And by empowering entrepreneurs all over the country, Chris has been able to build something pretty big here. He's passionate about developing people, creating opportunity, and uh building teams that thrive in their communities. Chris, I hope that was a proper intro for you because uh I'm I'm excited to have you on the podcast today.

Chris Fisher 0:58

Jason, thank you very much for that intro. It was great. We had a great pre-call, right, a few weeks ago just to kind of get to know each other. And I'm excited for what we're gonna get into today. Um I I I agree with you, leadership is quite a topic. Yeah, for sure.

Jason Taylor 1:13

And let's dive right into it. So you have started, I know it probably feels like a year, maybe two years, or even a week, but you started Shine over 25 years ago now, all right? And I know that just kind of whizzed by and it's a bit of a blur, but what's one of the leadership principles that's stayed constant through every stage of the growth that you've had with Shine?

Chris Fisher 1:34

Oh, that's a great question. And I wasn't really reflecting on that question, but some other things. And just as we're continuing to grow, thinking about what's what's important, and it's not necessarily in our vision statement or our you know, our values, but it's really in making a difference. I know that it's used a lot, but really how can we make a difference with our customers, with our team members in the community, in our families? Just how can we make a difference? And if we're looking for that, that's that's kind of been the staple as we've gone through and and really just the one, right? Like just one customer, one team member, be there for the one, and then that grows. So that's that's really been the bedrock of what we've tried to do.

Jason Taylor 2:19

What I like about that is it doesn't matter what level you're at, whether you're the owner, the franchisee, the marketing person, the person that's doing the work, crew member, everybody is able to make a difference at one point in the day or in the hour that they're working. There's always an opportunity for somebody to make a difference.

Chris Fisher 2:35

Oh, man, yeah. And especially in the home service world, right? Where or our customer service world where you're taking care of people and taking care of their assets, their homes. There's there's challenges that come up. So how can we how can we make a difference? How can we make it easier for a customer? How can we shine something up that was dirty? How can we lift up our teammates who come in and they're not happy that day? How do we deal with problems and conflict? It's just how there's so many opportunities in in the business world to to do that. Absolutely.

Jason Taylor 3:05

You talk about serving often in our in our other conversations, and you're big into empowering your franchise partners that have basically said, hey, we we love this brand and we want to invest and we want to be part of it. What does great leadership look like when your I'll say quote unquote team is made up, made up of so many independent business owners? What does that look like?

Chris Fisher 3:27

It's different because you can't really lead out of fear or you've got to do this, right? They've they've invested in a business, they're the business owner, and we have a set of standards that we all agree that we're gonna live by and do business by. And that's really the empowerment is trying to stay aligned with what they invested in, right? They they knew that we're about you know making a difference, like we talked about being a lights and and operating their businesses in such a way that is can be attractive out in the marketplace. So we can't control that, but it's it's the values that we align to and remind each other of those values. So when we're you know not bringing positive energy to any conversation or comments come through, and we're positive with a customer, we can rely on that as opposed to a personality trait or a characteristic thing. It's just I chose not to be positive that day, right? So, like, why? So that's really how we do it.

Jason Taylor 4:26

I like that you come across very consistent in your messaging to your team and when you have conversations with others like myself, you're very consistent in in the way you present yourself. I actually, you know, something you just said there resonated with me because they're all independent. I guess it'd be like leading everybody. You can't lead everybody the same way. You could be consistent in your messaging, but if we lead everybody in the same way, it's like giving everybody the same shoe size, right? It does it doesn't make sense. So by being self-aware as you are and kind of knowing, hey, let's let's just keep it to let's be consistent, let's be positive, let's bring an energy that allows you to resonate with whomever you're speaking to at the time.

Chris Fisher 5:05

Yeah, and and and it resonates not just here, but out there too. So when we can bring it out there and in here, and that doesn't mean it's easy, right? Like in a family, you've got children and you've got moms and dads and cousins, whatever, and and you're aligned around a lot of things, but you still have conflict. So how do you approach that conflict, right? You run away from it, or do you you try to build some trust so that we can have that conflict with each other? Because you know, in business and franchising, we are gonna have conflict, and that's healthy. How do we tackle problems together? We're not always gonna see it the same way, but we can approach it in a positive way. We don't have to be negative about it. We can bring the positivity in if if we're just using the values to call that out as opposed to you suck, Jason, right? I mean, it's it's better.

Jason Taylor 5:49

For sure. Yeah. You know what I like about that too is I'm a big believer in it's great when somebody doesn't agree with you all the time. And conflict is actually healthy. It's just how we present our conflict, right? Because if somebody's agreeing with everything you say, I know you. You don't want that either. You want some challenge and say, hey, maybe you don't agree with this decision. That's okay. Just let's approach it in a real positive manner so we can get to a better place.

Chris Fisher 6:12

You're spot on, or I agree with you. There, and maybe that's not so accepted in the world today. We become very polarized, and conflict is now, if you're having conflict, it's you pick one side or the other, and then you don't like the person on the other side. Rather than going, this is healthy. You can believe what you want. We can let's try to figure it out together, as opposed to just writing each other off because we disagreed on something, right?

Jason Taylor 6:37

Yeah, absolutely. It brings me X, it's a great segue to my next question because you know, you're all about how you treat people, making sure that, you know, treat people the way you want to be treated. What does that actually look like in hard moments? So there's hard moments, maybe it's the environment we're going through COVID, or maybe it's, hey, we've got a lot of successful franchisees out there. There's there's one or two that are struggling right now and they they need some help. So, what does it look like to make sure that we keep that leadership consistent when we're dealing in some hard moments along the way? A word that comes to mind, and I think it relates, but breathe. Great. That's that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome.

Chris Fisher 7:17

You know, maybe don't respond instantly to every comment and just breathe, take it in, listen, and then address it. Yeah. Because oftentimes emotions start taking over, right? And then we say things we don't intend to say, or we lose our point when we're trying to just do that. And and that's not always easy either, you know. Sometimes you got to pinch yourself, okay, breathe. Yeah. So maybe it's breathe.

Jason Taylor 7:45

And that's hard to do. Speaking personally, so I'm I'm an emotional guy, like I like to lead with logic, but I'm also passionate. I take things personally. That's kind of one of my traits. And sometimes I have to actually stop myself and you know, I'll get an email or a text, and I'll be thinking, oh man, I want to respond right now to this. And sometimes you're so right. If I just take that moment to breathe and I just think, okay, don't react right now, relax, sit back, think about it, and even give it an hour sometimes. And it's amazing, just giving it that hour sometimes, I'll have a totally different perspective. And all of a sudden, that text that I was typing furiously on with my thumbs, I'm like, oh, I'm so grateful I didn't send that across the way, right?

Chris Fisher 8:30

Yeah. And when you don't do that and you press send and you're like, oh, why did I just send that? Right. I mean so true. It can happen to all of us, right? Especially in texts and everything so insta. So yeah.

Jason Taylor 8:42

Yeah, for sure. You're uh very fortunate your franchise is growing and the network continues to grow. How do you protect the culture from being diluted when you're bringing in so many people or or you're growing across the country and and uh you know all over right now?

Chris Fisher 8:58

In a franchise system, I think it really starts with a unified team, you know, at our home office. If we're leading by example, Jason, and living out the values with each other and then with our franchisee owners, I think that's the place to start. And then really, as we're helping to guide and help these owners grow, and sometimes it's challenging markets or challenging um things, you know, business is not easy, right? It's not easy. So how to how to how to lead by example and try to not keep it, make it personal, right? Like that's a big thing is if we can stay away from that, I think we have a better opportunity to have and and a culture is just people, it's not what's on the wall, it's not, it is just how we interact together. So that's gonna ebb and flow. It's gonna ebb and flow, you know?

Jason Taylor 9:44

Yeah. I love what you said there. Culture is about people. And I had a long chat with uh a veteran in the business, his name's Brian Baisley. He's he's absolutely fantastic with franchise systems and and whatnot. And he says so many franchises, you know, they have all the SOPs, they have all the logistics behind everything. But when you talk about culture and people, they really don't have a playbook for that. It's just kind of this vision or this statement on the wall. But the key is how do you actually bring that statement to life? And what do you what are you doing, right? So it's you just touched on that. It's it's about people and it's about making sure that we're holding each other accountable to being really good people in our communities and growing and helping out our fellow franchisee, right? Letting people reach out and say, hey, you're doing awesome. I'm not doing that great right now. What can I learn from you and how can you help me along the way? And how can that person be altruistic in in that journey? I'm a huge believer in that.

Chris Fisher 10:37

Jason, as you were talking, I was picking out a word, uh, it's humility, right? I mean, yeah, we're we're looking for franchise owners who are confident, right? We need winners, but they're they have to have a uh some sort of humility to them, like to be able to continue to learn. You know, oftentimes somebody comes into franchising, they were maybe an amazing financial person or an amazing salesperson. There's a lot to running a business from wearing a lot of hats. And so to be humble, that learning curve goes a lot faster than thinking you know it all, right? Which, you know, that confidence can can come to bite you if you're not humble. So that's really important.

Jason Taylor 11:14

I think it's amazing when a leader actually says, I don't know. I see many leaders throughout the world, and I think it is so empowering when a leader is asked a question and they just instead of doing the hubbadah hubbaddas and trying to make it, they just say, Wow, I actually don't know the answer to that. I'll get back to you. It's it just shows humility, and and I actually think, man, they've just established themselves even more so as a leader by having the courage to say, I don't know, and that's okay. I can find out for you, but I don't know that answer right now.

Chris Fisher 11:45

I love that you brought that up. We're I was having lunch with a friend today before this meeting, and we hadn't caught up in many years, but we were talking about that topic as as dads to be able to say to our kids, I don't know that. Um, yeah, you know, because we want to give them the answer to everything, right? We're we're dad, we shouldn't know everything, but letting them know we don't know everything. I think that that sets the table for them growing up too, going, I don't have to know it all.

Jason Taylor 12:11

Yeah, absolutely. That's so powerful. If you look at a lot of, and you've been in the business a long time, but if you look at a lot of a lot of other founders that are building any kind of business, as they struggle to let go so they can scale, what did you have to unlearn, unlearn as a leader to build something bigger than yourself?

Chris Fisher 12:30

I think I was luckier blessed because I that didn't come natural to me, right? Like it was do it yourself, you get it done better and easier and faster. Yeah. But when we took a trip or moved to Uganda, I was forced to surrender a lot. And I think, and that was pretty early on in shine. And so learning that lesson of I gotta put it in the hands of other people, and then to come back and go, wow, it grew while I was gone. So that's pretty amazing. That's pretty awesome. So I still struggle with that. You know, I I think I know what should be done, and sometimes it's like you just gotta step back and and and let it go.

Jason Taylor 13:10

Yeah, I love that. I actually I have troubles letting go sometimes as well because you think to yourself, I know how to do this, I'm just gonna hold on to this. And then one of my mentors said to me once, you know what? So that person's probably not gonna do it exactly how you would do it, Jason. But what if they do it 80%? Is that pretty cool? And I said, Yeah. And then you could take that time you were spending, you can go grow somebody else over here, you could help people over here and whatnot. What if that happened? And it was just a different way to think about it. Like, yeah, they don't have to be, and nor should they be, or should I want them to be 100% Jason Taylor? They should be themselves, but if they can get the same job done 80% of the way and figure out some things along the way, we're in a better place altogether.

Chris Fisher 13:51

You're spot on. You know, you know what else? I can't get to everything that I think I so most things get done at 40% when I'm doing it because I don't have the time to do it. So having it done 80%, it should be, but it's just up here thinking, well, I can do it better. Yeah, for sure.

Jason Taylor 14:09

Let's talk about your system. So if we're we're being transparent, franchisees are sometimes, you know, they're in a job or they're trying to do something else, and all of a sudden they're thrown into this big title called business owner. And they're not just a uh part of a business all of a sudden, all of a sudden everything kind of comes on them, right? What separates the ones, in your opinion, who thrive from the ones who struggle as they become that business owner?

Chris Fisher 14:35

There's a few things that come to mind, but I like to read, I don't know if you're reading, but Patrick Lancioni's written some really good books, I think, that that hold on to. And um, he was talking about leadership. And signing up for leadership is really signing up to suffer.

Jason Taylor 14:51

Yeah.

Chris Fisher 14:52

He said so true. There's a lot of good things that come along with it. Or if you're not in it to serve people, it's gonna be really, really challenging and and tough. And maybe there's different things that you could do rather than aspire to to lean something. So I think that's that's critically important to realize if it's the title that you want, that will quickly evaporate in terms of being rewarding when you're running a business and trying to grow it because you need people that are with you to help you grow it.

Jason Taylor 15:25

Yeah. Chris, have you ever tried to talk somebody out of buying one of your franchises?

Chris Fisher 15:30

Yeah, it's sort of built into what we try to do is, you know, to talk them out so they can talk themselves back into it. Yeah. You know, really that I think that's that's critical. If we see somebody like this, would be a great shine owner. Even then, it's we can't predict so many things and so many life consequences. So we really want them to know that this is what I want to do, right? There's a why here attached to it. And especially the first-time business owners are so excited, right? Like to get there, that's only step one. Then then there's then there's building it, and then there's scaling it, and then someday there's exiting it. So there all of those things have to be sort of thought out on top of the emotion of the excitement of doing your own thing, right? Being your own boss.

Jason Taylor 16:16

Do you have a lot of multiple store owners that own multi-franchisees?

Chris Fisher 16:20

We've got several, yeah. Yeah.

Jason Taylor 16:22

I love that. I love when that's some because that just shows that your your team has done a great job at saying, hey, you know what? You built this and and now let's let's try another one. Let's go somewhere else. It just shows real health, in my opinion. I think I know the answer to this, but I often say culture shows up in small moments throughout the day, throughout the week, throughout the month. What's one behavior or standard, let's say, because I know you keep yourself to a high standard at Shine that you never let slide?

Chris Fisher 16:49

I don't know if it's a standard so much, but we have something called a morning huddle that every Monday morning we get together as a team, and it's not about work. It's really about how is the weekend? How is what are some highlights? What are some wins? And, you know, bring us into your personal life a little bit before we jump into work for the rest of the week. So I think that's sounds small, but you know, just to take the time to do that, I think is I would never not do that anymore. It's just so Wow.

Jason Taylor 17:20

I gotta tell you, I'm gonna steal that from you. Shit, it's a lot of fun. Yeah, I love that. Like uh just a daily quick, you know, 10, 15 minute huddle just uh find out how people are feeling and whatnot. And it could be done in so many, it could be done on Zoom, it could be done in person, you know, you can just figure it out really fast. And I bet you if you actually stopped that, people would actually crave it to have that back.

Chris Fisher 17:42

Yeah, I think it's you know, people would be like, oh, Monday morning, I can get there, but once we're here and then you're hearing from everybody, and you know, you hear sometimes a recipe will come up because they were cooking something great on the weekend or they went to a ball game or their kid did this, or it's like it just humanizes us, you know, with each other. Absolutely.

Jason Taylor 18:01

You built a business and you talk uh a lot about being the in quotes I put uh light in the community, right? How do you make that more than just a phrase?

Chris Fisher 18:11

So for us, being a light is what we build everything around, and it's it goes along with making a difference. So when we talk about our values, that's what fuel us to be lights. So the more we're living out, pursuing excellence, being positive with our teams and in the community, servant heart, being safe with each other and on the job and having fun, then our lights shine bright. And that's something that we can easily grab hold of. I love fives because I've I happen to have five fingers, and so when you've got five values, you can kind of draw on that, but that's what fuels us to be lights, um, in my mind. And bringing this full circle for me, I do lean on my faith. And being a light is, you know, from a passage in Matthew about being a light to glorify God. So I bring that into these values so that, you know, at the end of the day, I know for me I'm doing that for for my faith too. But I love that.

Jason Taylor 19:16

I think we can just bring that everybody into that. You couldn't have answered that any better, Chris. That was a phenomenal answer. Thank you for that. When things aren't going well, how do you show up for your team differently as a leader?

Chris Fisher 19:29

Communicate, just dive into it and encourage our team to lots of times problems happen because of lack of communication or because something was said, somebody heard somebody, especially in the remote world today. So when we hear that it's reminding our team, go to the person. Go to the person and not speak to the guy next to you, or you know, that that that stokes the fire. But when you can go to the person and say, Hey, I got this challenge with what you said on that call, or or what what we did at that conference, or how can you talk to me about it? That then that that seems to be the way to go.

Jason Taylor 20:09

Yeah.

Chris Fisher 20:09

And sometimes we forget that and we just fall away from that a little bit. And sometimes new people, it's hard to talk to your your bosses about that, but we want to encourage to have that open line of communication.

Jason Taylor 20:21

Yeah. Again, leave your ego at the door and just just have a conversation, right?

Chris Fisher 20:25

Mm-hmm.

Jason Taylor 20:26

Yeah. You know, when you leave your ego at the door and you just, you know, have that open, honest, transparent conversation. As leaders, I believe we're always on stage as leaders. Somebody's always watching your mannerisms, somebody's looking if your shoulders are up, if you're rolling your eyes, if you don't believe what you just said. And the other, you know, what a great leader said to me once was leaders can't be part of the chaos.

Chris Fisher 20:47

They can't.

Jason Taylor 20:48

They can't. And you just said that based on look, go to the person. Don't say something kind of like this to somebody else, or you know, just send somebody a private text on on that. Just you're I I love that. Just go to the person, ask the question. And sometimes it just creates relief, and our anxiety, instead of being up here, it just it pushes it down and says, okay, we're okay.

Chris Fisher 21:07

The hard part, and I was trying to identify this the other day. The hard part with with that is when we when we hear something about somebody else in an organization or family or whatever in the world, it's almost like when chocolate chip cookies are cooking and you can just or baking, you just smell it. It's like, I want one of those. You got to resist the temptation to to participate in office gossip or any of that kind of thing. It's like, even though it may smell good and it feels good, in the end, it's gonna hurt and it's gonna hurt the team.

Jason Taylor 21:39

So just don't do it. Yeah, for sure. I got a couple questions uh for you, Chris, and then I'm gonna let you get back to your day because you've been very generous with your time today. I've got two. The first one I'd like to ask is just when someone spends time inside your Shine ecosystem, what do you hope they they take away beyond just business success? Not just being part of it, but what else do you want them to do? Take from it.

Chris Fisher 22:01

I want them to see something different. And I don't even need them to articulate it. I just would love for them to go, there's something different about that group. I'm not quite sure. I can't put my finger on it, but what there's something different about that. And I want to learn more. I want to know more about what's different. If that is true, then I think great. I love it.

Jason Taylor 22:21

And finally, we deal a lot with young leaders nowadays. And a lot of young leaders watch this podcast. If you had to give a piece of advice, one piece of advice to a young leader that's starting their career, and they're, you know, very young, they're just coming out of college or university, or they're just starting. What's that one piece of advice you'd say, hey, you know what, young person, here's what I hope you follow, or here's what I think you you need to do.

Chris Fisher 22:47

Jason, you brought this up when you were talking about, you said my mentor. Yeah. There are so many leaders out there who would love to share what they've learned to the next generation. But the next generation, the advice would be call them up, ask them up, send them an email, connect. There's so many ways to connect now and tell them you just want to learn. Could I have a half an hour? I tell you, we I don't get that very often. And I would love to do that, but it's it's just I think I think young leaders think they've got to do it on their own, right? Like in, but there's so many men and women out there who would love to share what they've learned from experience and and and help the next generation.

Jason Taylor 23:27

I think it's actually our obligation as leaders to do that. Because I've had some I've had some amazing leaders, I've had some bad leaders, but as people, we sometimes we remember the bad leaders more so than the great leaders. And I think it's amazing when you can actually say to somebody, hey, Chris, you made a real difference in my life. And this is why, and this is why I leap because of you, because you helped me 15 years ago with the these two things that you said to me. And I took those, and and things have really worked out well for me. And I think that's such a powerful piece of advice.

Chris Fisher 24:01

Yeah, that's I I think you bring what leaders and a basketball coach, right? Lots of times coaches have that opportunity with kids. And he was one of those coaches. Like one time we were all ticking him off, and he he went outside and sat on the curb while we were all doing suicide sprints. And yeah, he was just he was a kind of a fiery guy, but we knew he loved us, right? And we run through a brick wall for him. And yeah, I think that love and care that he gave to us and belief, right? He believed in us, every one of us, that our strengths were better than our weaknesses. So, like that I had stayed with me. And so, Coach Moore, thank you.

Jason Taylor 24:37

Yeah, exactly. That's I love that you said that to Coach Moore. And I even sent him a text or a quick email afterwards and just say, hey, you know what? You c you came up in a conversation today because that makes their day. And it just shows you made a difference, and thank you for being a great leader because you've helped me, you know, shape what I do along the way. Chris, with that, I want to thank you. Like I said earlier in our conversation, I think that we need better leaders in the world today, and I think that it is a constant journey. And your voice today is gonna be heard, and I appreciate you taking the time and and uh spending some time with us because I know you have a thought I know you're not looking for things to do in a day. I understand that you have, I understand that you have a full schedule. So thank you for your time today, and I wish you and the team of Shine nothing but the best and prosperity, and uh just go out and get it. If you love that session and that conversation as much as I did, would love to have you join our People Playbook community in the link below.