Jason Taylor 0:00

Welcome to this edition of the People's Playbook Podcast. I have to tell you, I'm incredibly excited today. And the reason is is I have Ron Cecil on with us today for the podcast. The special thing about Ron is he's great at building. All right. So he is currently the president and COO of Denny's Canada, Bar One in Northland, UK and Ireland Restaurant Group at Northland Properties. But he didn't start yesterday. This gentleman has over 30 years of leadership experience. He has a reputation, a strong reputation of growing brands, most importantly, developing high performing teams and creating cultures that thrive and drive both performance and customer experiences. With that, Ron, welcome to the podcast.

Ron Cecillon 0:41

Thanks, Jason. Really appreciate give me the time to chat today.

Jason Taylor 0:45

Yeah, it's uh well, I know it's in your kind of realm of what you like to chat about, you know, people, culture, and just driving organizations.

Ron Cecillon 0:52

Absolutely. Right up my wheelhouse.

Jason Taylor 0:55

Yeah, exactly. You don't have to study for that, Ron, because you've kind of done a lifelong study for it so far, right? So it's it's not like in university when we're cramming, you basically do this stuff every day. Let's get right into it, Ron. So you've led brands, several different brands, actually, through growth, acquisitions, transformation. If I asked you what leadership principle has remained constant through it all, what would you say?

Ron Cecillon 1:20

I think it's a great question. And I probably changed my strategy a hundred times over my career, but I've really never changed in my belief that business is ultimately about people, right? And I mean, that's what we're here to talk about today. I think we can have a great strategy, but if people don't believe in the strategy, they don't understand it, they don't feel like they're part of it. The strategy really doesn't go very far, right? And if you remember Pete Drucker, Pete Drucker is a life, you know, he's a he's a guru when it comes to leadership. And he's always said, you know, culture eats strategy for breakfast. And I and I've sort of embraced that. I've learned that people don't follow plans, Jason, and they follow leaders that they trust. So I've always tried to focus on being visible and honest and consistent. Because I believe if our team trusts us, they understand our intent, they'll usually give us the benefit of the doubt, especially when things get tough and when you're evolving and growing things, there's always challenges for sure.

Jason Taylor 2:13

Yeah, for sure. And you have to deliver the direct, direct, tough message sometimes when you're evolving and when you're taking an organization from here to here through cultures. You know, you have some people that actually love it and say, Yeah, I'm craving this change. And you have some people that sometimes don't come along for the ride.

Ron Cecillon 2:28

Absolutely. And then that's where that clarity and transparency is incredibly important, right? People can generally understand logic. And you give them the logic and you give them the destination and how we're gonna get there. And I think people will come along. Most people will. And if not, that's okay too.

Jason Taylor 2:44

Yeah. Ron, I had this uh gentleman speak in my in one of my previous lives. I had a gentleman come speak at one of my conferences, and uh, well, you know him well probably. It's Pinball Clemens.

Ron Cecillon 2:54

Yeah.

Jason Taylor 2:55

I said to him once, I said, you know what, I wish when I picked, you know, somebody on my team, I'd I had this like fake almost bar and I could put it in their stomach and I could see how much passion they have, and there'd be this little measuring stick on it. He looked at me and he said, Well, what do you mean by that? And I said, you know, sometimes you hire somebody or you you think you have somebody and then it's not that person you thought. And he said this to me and it stuck with me. He actually said, Well, that's your fault. And I was like, Okay. And he said, Because you're the coach. And I said, True. And he said, and your job is to create belief. And I went, yeah. And he said, and belief fuels passion and passion rarely fails. And it stuck with me, Ron. It's almost like it was yesterday when he said he said, belief fuels passion and passion rarely fails. And when you're talking about just explaining to them and just say, come along for the ride, you're talking about creating that belief. So they're passionate about it and they they want to come for the ride.

Ron Cecillon 3:46

Absolutely. Pinball's incredible. He spoke at one of our conferences in a previous brand, and uh you almost forget that he was a football player. Yeah. Because he's such an incredible leader. He's a leader on the field, but uh what a great leader. And his message just really resonates with me for sure.

Jason Taylor 4:02

Yeah, and so approachable in in anybody he talks to. He's just uh an open book. Ron, you often talk about how to, you know, about elevating brands, teams, culture, performance. Which one, if you had your opinion, should leaders focus on first and why? So if I'm talking about elevating a brand through team, culture, or performance, what do you think you should focus on first?

Ron Cecillon 4:23

I actually think culture comes first. And I say that not because most people will think it's the soft answer. I think it's because it's the multiplier, right? You know, your brand is delivered by our people, right? Our brand or your brand is delivered and produced by your people, or guest experiences created by people. I think if we could build a great culture that people feel valued and challenged and connected to something meaningful, everything becomes easier. I think culture isn't posters on a wall, right? And, you know, that's the easy part. I think it's the behavior, you know, everybody expects and experiences every day. And that's all through the organization.

Jason Taylor 4:59

Yeah. I love what you just said there. Culture is something usually you see on the wall. And what I work with with companies and I talk to them about is okay, sure, there's that big statement on the wall, but what are you actually doing about that statement? And you probably know Brian Baisley well. Yeah. He often talks about, he says, you know, they'll have every SOP in the world in a book and, you know, everything about operations and brand standards and whatnot. But when you come to the people, what's your playbook? Right. And what's important to actually drive that culture forward?

Ron Cecillon 5:30

Yeah, and that culture will help us be the lens to how we make decisions as well, right? I mean, we've got to look at that. And it should help us say no to things if it doesn't align with culture.

Jason Taylor 5:40

Yeah, absolutely. Isn't that a great kind of guiding principle? So, hey, if this doesn't align up with our values, the answer is no.

Ron Cecillon 5:47

Yeah.

Jason Taylor 5:48

Right. And when the leader, like yourself, says that, you're giving permission to everybody in the organization to say, hey, if it's not aligning up with our values or our mission and what we're trying to do, the answer is no. Because there's too many distractions around us that just say, I'm gonna go off over here now, I'm gonna do this. Just focus in on the values and the core principles. Let's go hard on those, right?

Ron Cecillon 6:09

Absolutely. I agree wholeheartedly.

Jason Taylor 6:11

Yeah. Let's talk about Denny's for a second. So you guys, your team has undergone some significant evolution recently. Really cool stuff, by the way. How do you lead change without creating uncertainty within the team?

Ron Cecillon 6:21

Yeah, I mean, uh, lots of change happening right now with our acquisition. You know, when we acquired the rights back in January and we we're autonomous now. You know, we are we own the brand, we own the IP here in Canada. Change naturally creates uncertainty, you know. So we'd be foolish to pretend it really doesn't, you know, especially as a leader. I think what I found people can handle almost any change if they can understand why it's happening and where it's going. And, you know, Jason, I think we spend a lot of time talking about the destination at Denny's, not just the tasks that are going to get us there. And when people understand the purpose behind our change, I think they feel like less that the change is happening to them and they start feeling like they're part of something bigger and they're building something better. And I think as leaders, we tend to underestimate how people watch us when change is happening. They watch what we're doing more so than listening to what we're saying. And I think during change, consistency is paramount. It becomes more important than when we're not changing in the business.

Jason Taylor 7:22

Yeah. You you said something very powerful there. I I often say leaders are on stage all the time. And somebody is always watching a leader. They're seeing if you're shrugging your shoulders, if you're rolling your eyes, if you believe what you just said, if you're coming out of a meeting with the other leaders and you're kind of, you know, rolling your eyes and you can't believe what Jimmy said over there or whatever, right? As a leader, you're always on stage and people watch us. And the best part about it is people want to be led. And I mean that to the top person. CEOs want to be led, right? They want clarity. They want to kind of think, hey, where are we going? What road are we taking to get to where we're going?

Ron Cecillon 7:53

Yeah. You know, what I'd add to that is, you know, to build upon what you just said is that people are watching to see if there's lack of alignment within the leaders, right? And if there is, it's easy to exploit that, right? And uh so whether we're not as leaders, we're never going to agree on everything. But when we leave that room, we have to own it. And because you're absolutely right, there's the eyes are on us all the time. You know, the cliche, we have to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Jason Taylor 8:19

Yeah. I love what you said that I refer to that as the locker room. That's your locker room with the other leaders. And in that locker room, you're allowed to challenge respectfully. You're allowed to voice your opinion, and hopefully everybody does voice their opinion and make sure that we're coming out to the right decision, not just somebody else's decision. But more importantly, to your point, when we leave that room, we are aligned. And I've had all my time now to challenge you and say, hey, Ron, I don't agree, or I do agree, or whatever. But when I leave that room as part of a great team, I'm aligned. I'm playing the system. And I've had my say, uh, but now it's time for me to actually be that leader and say, hey, you know what? I'm for this. So there's not a kink in the armor, and people know that we're aligned as a leadership group.

Ron Cecillon 9:03

Yeah.

Jason Taylor 9:03

Agree 100%. Yeah.

Ron Cecillon 9:05

Absolutely.

Jason Taylor 9:05

So, Ron, you've scaled businesses across corporate, franchise, privately held uh companies and environments. What leadership challenge exists in all three?

Ron Cecillon 9:15

Hmm. Interesting question. I think I used the word just in my last answer when we, you know, it's alignment. I think every organization has different organ, you know, ownership structures is privately held, there's PE backed, family run, but people still want the same thing. I think in all across all organizations and structures, people want clarity. Where are we going? Why does it matter? You know, what's expected to me? And I think most importantly, how do I contribute to it? So I think when everybody really can wrap their arms around those four things, amazing things can happen. And when they don't, the scary thing happens. People start filling in the blanks themselves. And that's where things can go off the rails quite quickly.

Jason Taylor 9:54

Yeah. So powerful. One of your top strengths, I'd almost call it one of your superpowers, is talent development. Right. What do you look for when identifying future leaders within that talent, within that pool? How does Ron look at things and say, hey, and I'll preface that, I'm a huge believer in leadership without titles, right? I don't care if you're the host, the bartender, the you can be a leader without the big huge title, right? But when you're looking to identify future leaders, what do you look for and what kind of cues do you try to pick up on?

Ron Cecillon 10:23

Yeah, you know, I become less interested in who's the smartest person in the room. You know, 20, 20 years ago, I thought that was the key. Let's go find the smartest person in the room. I think now I focus on who's more interested in being curious, you know, and staying curious and wanting to learn. I think humility is something that is paramount when we're looking for uh great talent and uh, you know, people with the ability to ask great questions. I think people who make mistakes instead of explaining them away, and people who really show up to make people better around them. I think that's key. I think technical skills can be taught, and we all know that. But character, I think curiosity and the ability to be coachable are much harder to develop.

Jason Taylor 11:06

Yeah.

Ron Cecillon 11:06

Were you a fan of the show Ted Lasso? Oh, fantastic.

Jason Taylor 11:10

Yeah, that was my favorite scene in the entire show, Be Curious when they played. Be curious. Yeah. And I thought, what a brilliant way to display that. And when he's just talking about, hey, you know what, if you ask some questions and you actually listened, you'd figure out that, you know, I did play darts and such a beautiful scene.

Ron Cecillon 11:26

Great scene.

Jason Taylor 11:26

That's a great scene. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. So, you know, when you're growing a brand and and I know you, you're very much, hey, we need to perform, which is the right way to be as a president COO. How do you balance accountability and empowerment when leading large teams that are distributed all over the country? Like, how do you manage that and balance that?

Ron Cecillon 11:46

Yeah, I think far too often people think of them as being separate, right? So I think accountability and empowerment actually go together. I think we can't hold people accountable for decisions that we didn't trust them to make. I think that's key. And we need to be really clear about the outcomes we're looking for, but give people room to determine how they get there. Not the way that I'd get there, maybe the way you're going to get there. And you know, there's always different routes to get to the end. And I think my job as the president and the leader of the business and the brand isn't to have all the answers. I think it's to build leaders and who can solve problems without needing me every time and making sure that decisions are being made at the right level of the organization and not always filtering up to the top. Otherwise, you've got to question the teams that you've put together if you've got to make all those decisions.

Jason Taylor 12:36

Yeah. One thing that uh I like to base on our last conversation, Ron, is just how you were drawn back to hospitality, right? So you've had experience in all other businesses, but hospitality is your, you know, another superpower of yours. So when we're talking about hospitality in a in a customer-facing business, how should leaders connect employee experience with customer experience?

Ron Cecillon 12:58

I don't think you can separate them. I think they're inextricably linked. Our guests would experience the culture of the business that they're dealing with long before they experience the food, you know, especially at Denny's. If our servers and our managers, our hosts, they feel supported, appreciated, and proud of what they do. I think the guest feels that. I mean, hospitality is emotional. And if you read Will Gadera's book, right? You know, and I think everybody has, is the one thing that's stuck with me there is that service is black and white and hospitality is color, right? So hospitality is emotional. People remember how you made them feel. And I think the same is true with employees. And we speak a great deal about it across all of our brands here at Northland is the guest experience will never be better than the employee experience.

Jason Taylor 13:45

Yeah, that is such a powerful statement. It's it's funny you said that too about, you know, guests remember how you made them feel. There's the brands that absolutely get it. And I often say to people, I'll say, you could go to a restaurant that is known for outstanding food, top of their game and whatnot. But if the if the hospitality and the service wasn't great, you kind of think, ah, okay. But you could go to the same, you know, another brand and have another meal and then have an incredible, uh, hospitable experience with amazing service. And the food could be okay, but it felt great. And because it felt so great, you say, you know what? I actually want to go back there again and share another experience with them. I want to celebrate a birthday with them. I want to celebrate an anniversary with them. I want to do something with them based on how they made me feel. And I love how you brought that together on just black and white and color and all that stuff, because it's so important.

unknown 14:35

Yeah.

Ron Cecillon 14:36

No, I agree. You know, we we talked about in the industry, like great food will never recover bad service. And how you made them feel. The reverse is true to your point is you can have a bad, you know, a meal that doesn't hit the mark. But if that server, that manager, that environment was there, uh, you'll give them another chance. You're much more forgiving as a consumer and as a guest.

Jason Taylor 14:56

Yeah, absolutely. So you've had a long career over 30 years. And you're making me feel old here. Hey, me too, Ron. Me too. Right. So if you look back on that career, what leadership lesson did you have to learn the hard way?

Ron Cecillon 15:11

Yeah, that's a great one. I think earlier in my career, I thought leadership meant having all the answers. Everybody had to come to me. Knowledge was power. I think now leadership is all about asking the right questions. You know, I've learned that if you're the smartest voice in every meeting, you're limiting the organization, right? We talked earlier about debates and healthy debates in in boardrooms. I think today, I obviously say today I spend a hell of a lot more time listening than I do talking. Because, you know, rarely all decisions and all great ideas come from one person. Yeah. And that has been a massive shift. I used to think that I had all the ideas. Now, what's great about our role, and you know, when you lead to the brand, I get to scale people's ideas. Right. You know, that's the cool thing that I get to do and celebrate those ideas through the organization, right? Not take them as my own and take all the credit. But that's the beauty of being a leader, you know, in my role is being able to scale people's ideas. It's a true honor to be able to do that.

Jason Taylor 16:12

Yeah. Isn't it amazing when a leader says, I don't know.

unknown 16:15

Yeah.

Jason Taylor 16:15

You know, we've seen some leaders and again, I think at some points in my career, I tried to be that person that knew everything as well. Because I thought, to your point, I thought, am I supposed to know this? And I didn't want to be caught in a position where, oh, I'm supposed to know this and I don't. I think it shows such humility and it's so authentic when a leader is asked a question, especially in a crowd or in front of their team and whatnot, and they they look and they go, Yeah, I don't know that answer. Now, it's my job now as a leader to go find it, and I can do that for you. But there's nothing wrong with a leader saying, you know what, great question. I I actually don't know. I need to I need to find that out for you.

Ron Cecillon 16:49

Yeah, but you know, I mean it's being vulnerable. Vulnerability is uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. And and I think our industry's evolved dramatically over the last 30 years, you know, and to be vulnerable 35 years ago, it might get used against you, right? You know, today it's embraced, and I think that's how you'll continue to grow because you've demonstrated vulnerability. You went out and found the answer and said, you know, I don't know this, but let me get back to you with that, right? Or what do you think? Maybe you have the answer. And you may be, you know, a service attendant, you may be a dishwasher, you may be a manager. They can have the right ideas. They can have the right answers as well. But being vulnerable to say, I don't know, I think that's a strength.

Jason Taylor 17:30

Yeah. And you you said something key there. I think so many answers come from the organization of the people we don't often think will have the answers, but they're on the front lines, they're in the dish pit, they're in the kitchen, they're, you know, prepping and whatnot. And they're thinking, man, I don't know why Jason just doesn't see this. Like, why wouldn't he just do this and this would be fixed? And when you, again, to your point earlier, Ron, be curious and you ask questions, you get people talking and they say, you know what, Ron, why don't we try this? Or have you ever thought of this? Or this isn't working because of this. And because they experience it, they're on the front line and they're dealing with it day to day, there's some amazing insights and answers we get from them.

Ron Cecillon 18:11

Absolutely. There was a server in one of our locations, one of our diners in Oakville. And I was chatting with him during one of my coffee chats, and he was like, This is really frustrating. I have to walk so many steps back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. We've actually changed their service standard to make life easier because of this one individual, you know, saying, Hey, life would be easier, not just for me, but for all my peers. And there's, you know, 3,600 peers, you know, at Denny's, and we made this change, and life's easier for all of them because the guest doesn't know your standard, right?

Jason Taylor 18:45

Yeah.

Ron Cecillon 18:46

You know, we do, and we eliminated it. And I think the guest is better off, and and more importantly, our people are better off.

Jason Taylor 18:52

Yeah. And the 3,600 colleagues of his said thank you.

Ron Cecillon 18:56

Yes, exactly.

Jason Taylor 18:57

Yeah. Good, good conversation to have with Ron over that coffee, right? Yeah, exactly. What is one of the key behaviors that you see in high-performing teams that most organizations overlook?

Ron Cecillon 19:08

Uh, I think the ability to celebrate each other, right? Celebrate success, right? And so many high-performing teams, I think, maybe a bit dysfunctional high-performing teams, it's they're competing against each other all the time. They're stepping over each other to get ahead. But I really believe that the the best high-performing teams celebrate each other's success. They're they're not stepping over each other, they're winning together. I think it generates better collaboration and speed to market on things because they're all working together. I think the best teams that I've worked with have always had incredibly high standards. But more importantly, they've had each other's backs, especially when things get tough.

Jason Taylor 19:48

Yeah. It's amazing too. I had a leader tell me that young in my career, and he just said, when you get promoted, the team around you should be thrilled that you're promoted because you've done it in a in a really high cultured way. And they look at it as you deserve it. And we're here behind you, and we're going to support that, right? As opposed to why did he get it?

Ron Cecillon 20:07

It shouldn't be a surprise. If we've done our job as leaders, it should never be a surprise.

Jason Taylor 20:11

Yeah, a hundred percent. Absolutely. Ron, I have two more questions for you. I know you're a busy uh gentleman, and I just want to ask a couple more questions before I get you back on your day. When people leave your uh team that you've led along the way, what do you hope they remember most about your leadership?

Ron Cecillon 20:27

We were talking about this just yesterday, you know, with the team. Is, you know, I hope they're better off because they came through our doors and they had the opportunity to work together. And not just better operators. I think we often get too focused, Jason, on people being better operators, but better business people, better leaders, better personally. I think to me, that's a box, you know, I take every day to say I've made a difference. I hope they say they were trusted, they were challenged, listened to, you know, because listening is so important. And given the opportunities that they may not have thought they were ready for, I believe in stretching people, right? And I wouldn't be where I am today if somebody didn't do that to me. So really at the end of the day, I think, you know, businesses change and strategies evolve and careers move on. But if I can say I had a part in their growth and where they got today, and they feel like their growth as an individual, as a human, as a father, a mother has improved because they came through our doors, you know, I'll celebrate that all day long.

Jason Taylor 21:25

I love that. Uh we have a lot, last question before I let you go, Ron, but we have a lot of younger leaders that are starting their career and they listen to us. And if I had to say, Ron, what is one of the things you would say to a young leader today to just help them on their leadership journey or help them through a company or help them through life and all that? What would that one leadership kind of piece of advice be for those young, the for the younger generation?

Ron Cecillon 21:51

You know, I think it's uh you take control of your own destiny. I think it's accountability. You know, be accountable, right? Accountable to yourself, accountable to your teams and own things, right? We're you know, we'd be naive to believe that we will get everything right at times, right? We often talk about working below the line and above the line. But below the line, people don't take accountability for things. They make excuses, uh, they blame, right? So for a young leader, is as you're learning along the way, ask fantastic questions. But if you make a mistake, own it and learn from it. I think it's whether it's in our industry or any industry, I think that's for me is that takeaways. You know, if somebody can own something and, you know, I'll work with them to get them to wherever they want to go in their career, whether it's with us or without. Uh it's difficult to do that when people don't take accountability and ownership for their work, quality work, the way they treat people. And when they make mistakes, they don't own up to it.

Jason Taylor 22:49

So that's one of my one. Yeah, I love that. I um I I've given that piece of advice to my son as well. It's you take all the argument out when you say, Yeah, you know what, I could have done that better. I I messed up there. I apologize for that. That's on me. Then all of a sudden the the person's talking to you and they're like, oh, okay. So let's move forward then and see what we can do to make sure that doesn't happen again. So absolutely. Fantastic. Ron, thank you. Thank you for uh being a leader. Thank you for being a great leader. You know, we have a lot of people that watch this pod and people's voices need to be heard. I'm a big believer that people remember the best leader they have. They also remember the worst leader they had. The two go hand in hand, right? So thank you for giving us some of your time today, sharing some of your leadership, culture, kind of initiatives and what you're doing. I wish you nothing but the best in your your current role. I know you're gonna take that brand and just I know you and the team are just gonna skyrocket it based on kind of what your plans are and whatnot. And I'm definitely excited to see what comes up of that. So I uh I'm definitely gonna be one of the people that walk through those doors and say, you know what, let's see what the hospitality experience is here based on your leadership. So thank you for this.

Ron Cecillon 23:53

Thank you. No, my pleasure and my honor to be able to spend some time together with you and look forward to your feedback on what we're doing at Denny's across all of our diners.

Jason Taylor 24:02

Yeah, for sure. Awesome. Thanks, Ron. If you love that session and that conversation as much as I did, would love to have you join our People Playbook community in the link below.