Jason Taylor 0:00

Welcome to this edition of the People's Playbook Podcast. I have had the uh distinct pleasure of meeting um somebody by the name of Don Lindsay. And I have to tell you, in our quick discussions, I actually consider him a friend based on just shared values and kind of what we think about leadership and culture. He is uh a CEO, precision machining and manufacturing. He spent 25 years leading turnarounds. He's great at actually going in and saying, hey, what's that problem and how do I turn that around so people actually enjoy working here? He transforms culture, understands that culture is a direct line to the bottom line, right? And he's all about how do we increase EBITDAB and people actually liking to work and do what they do. So, with that introduction, Don, I hope I didn't uh pump your tires too much. I just want to welcome you to this to the podcast today.

Don Lindsey 0:50

Oh, Jason, I appreciate it, man. I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much. And uh yeah, let's get into it. Yeah, for sure.

Jason Taylor 0:57

So let's talk about PMM, right? So you actually walked into that business, and when you walked into that business, it is a completely different business today than what it was, what it was when you walked in, right? And I could just see your mouth watering and kind of saying, let me get my hands on this to see what we can do. So when you went into PMM, what did you realize about the people and the culture before you changed anything else?

Don Lindsey 1:22

The first thing that's really struck me was there was uh the culture was just not a good one. It was a it's what I would call a cancerous culture, right? It was a culture filled of people uh that were, it was a lot of complaining, a lot of unhappy people, people that just didn't have an understanding of what the expectations were. There was a lot of lack of accountability, there was uh a lack of motivation. There's that saying of what's in it for me. And everybody, you know, we come to a job because of what's in it for me, right? But it's about taking all those people, bringing them together as a team. That's the leader's challenge. But what was happening here is that there were just a bunch of individuals that were operating as individuals and only cared about themselves and what was best for them. And this negativity, this negative kind of culture just permeated throughout the entire company. And that was really, it was like an anchor on the the weight of a of the ship that was just holding it down below the waterline from really reaching, reaching up above the top.

Jason Taylor 2:28

What was the first thing you said? Hey, listen, I need you to get on board. And how how did you change that? How did you start that change management?

Don Lindsey 2:34

It's really simple. The first of all, as a leader, you got to establish who you are, right? I mean, I've done this before, and sometimes a little shock and odd doesn't hurt. And so I get the whole team together. I make it very clear on who I am as a person, what my expectations are, and what I expect of them. And then I also make it very clear to them that, hey, this is a new way of operating, and it's okay if this isn't for you anymore. Find out for them the five basic principles that I was going to basically live by. And number one is you had to have a great attitude. You had to choose to have a great attitude. Number one, it doesn't mean we don't have a bad day, right? Everybody has bad days. But if you're gonna show up here every day complaining about something, this is not gonna be the day for you, right? It's not perfect here. And and we know that, but you can choose to have a great attitude.

Jason Taylor 3:25

I agree.

Don Lindsey 3:25

Number two, you got to be a hard charger. And hard charging means tremendous work ethic. You know, really doing the little things, it means I don't have to ask you to go above and beyond your job. That means that you're really every day, you're putting out that extra effort and you're getting after it. Um, number three, extreme accountability, right? Is like I'm an accountable guy. And what I tell people is like, hey, you're gonna make mistakes. It's part of human behavior. That's not a problem. When you make the mistake, own it. Let's learn from it and let's not make that a mistake again in the future. But the thing I cannot stand is when people start making excuses or when they start blaming other people for it. I tell people that, hey, you know, you're not perfect. I know you're not perfect, I'm not perfect, I'm gonna make plenty of mistakes. So just own it, let's learn from it, move on. I tell them that you've got to be coachable, right? It's like I coach kids for 35 years. That's the way I lean into personnel and personal development, is I'm always coaching. I'm always looking for ways to improve and get better. And that's hard for people, especially people that have been doing certain jobs for many, many years because they see it as a critical type of thing. And so, you know, I tell people that I'm always coaching. So you have to be coachable and be prepared for that and know that that's the way I'm going to be developing you. And then lastly, you have to be impeccable with your words. And impeccable means being a great teammate, right? It's like treating people with respect. You know, being a great teammate means being helpful, being courteous, being respectful, and treating people like you want to be treated. Those are the five things that I have to have. And then I gave them the basis for every decision that I'll make here so that they're aware of it. And number one is it's not about me, right? And it's not about you. It is always about what's best for this company as I see it, first and foremost. So let's make that very clear. That's the basis for everything we're gonna do here. Now, if this new way of doing business isn't for you, I understand. And this might not be the place for you any longer, and we can discuss that. If it is, then this is what my expectations are gonna be, and I'm gonna hold you to that. And today we have 40 people working here, and there are seven here today that were here back then.

Jason Taylor 5:49

I love the fact that those seven bought in and said, I want to be part of this team. The other thing I know about you personally is hey, you'll hold yourself accountable as well. You know, for those of you who don't know Don and many don't, but I can tell you this: you are a true example of saying, hey, I'm gonna hold you accountable, but hold me accountable as well. When a leader does that, it says, Hey, I'm in. I'm all in. Let's go together and let's be a great team and let's go out and, you know, and win the game now.

Don Lindsey 6:18

That's right. As a leader, you know, one of the most admirable qualities of a leader is to first and foremost admit that you don't know everything and to let your people know your areas of weakness, right? I came in here and I'm filled surrounded by welders and fabricators and machinists. I am neither of those, but I'm a really good leader. I'm a really good developer of businesses, I'm a really good business leader. And so what I tell them is that, hey, I bring some things to the table that you're not so good at. You bring some things to the table that I'm not so good at. And we're gonna work together in order to bring take this company to the next level. But I need you to also tell me when I'm wrong and when I'm not doing things correctly. And that's okay. I don't take it personal. It's about what's best for the company.

Jason Taylor 7:10

Absolutely. You said probably in that last five minutes, you said the word team about five or six times, which I love. When we talk about, you know, a high talented person versus a team. What do you mean by that? Let's talk about the difference between leading a bunch of group of talented people or actually building that team.

Don Lindsey 7:29

You know, really the root of it is, and it goes back to my days of coaching, I'll take a person with all heart and less skill any day of the week than a person with all skill and no heart. Skills can be taught. Heart is something that comes from your gut. It's who you are as a person. And so when you take individuals, every person on the planet wants to live for something. They want to do something, they want to be part of something. And as leaders, it's our job to take their focus from them as individuals onto a greater purpose, onto a greater mission, and keep them focused on that. And when you can take a group of people that have good skill, but have even greater heart that are buying into your mission and buying into your purpose, and those people get on board with what you're trying to accomplish, then it's about them pushing the company forward. Because what happens is leaders think it's about them and what they're gonna do for the business. And I'm gonna tell you right now, you're one person among men. You're gonna not do a whole lot, right? You gotta have a team that's gonna put it forward, and your business is only as good as your people. Your people are the ones that are gonna make it better.

Jason Taylor 8:51

I often say we need them more than they need us. Amen. Yeah, it is, it it is so true. So you you're a very you come across, and I I know you're a very servant leader, you're very altruistic in your approach, but you're very direct in a good way. You're demanding. How do you balance serving people but holding them accountable and being that direct at times? Because sometimes people say, you know, you're saying it's all about me, but man, you're coming on me hard right now. So how do you balance that?

Don Lindsey 9:18

Well, first and foremost, you have to take an interest in developing people and you have to take a people, an interest in caring about people. That's gotta be the root of everything, right? My life's mission and my life's purpose is to help people be better every day by way of interacting with me. And I utilize business and my role in doing that. And so people have to trust you. You have to gain trust for them to give you an opportunity to develop them, right? And to coach them and to help them be better. And one of the things that I tell people is that listen, I want you to understand is I love you, right? When I make the decision to hire you, that means that you're on my team. So your job now is no longer a question, right? Now it's about getting better every day, right? If your job was a question, if your job was in jeopardy, you're gonna really know about that. That's gonna be a whole nother process, right? But when you when you're on my team and you become part of my family, then it's about helping you become the best version of yourself. And I want you to understand that I'm never, I will never come at you as a personal uh uh personally. I will always address you within your role and always try to help you coach you within your role and get better. And somebody once told me, they said, Don, you walk softly and carry a big stick. There are times I had a I had a leader in my office the other day and I had given some encouragement. He came around, he's like, Don, I need a hug. And so I hug him, I care for them, but make no mistake, I demand a lot of them and I challenge them to rise to the occasion, and they know that uh they have to toe the line. And if they don't, we're gonna have a real firm conversation. But it comes from a place of love and me caring about you as an individual.

Jason Taylor 11:18

You know, you talked about heart there, and one of my favorite sayings is hard work beats skill when skill doesn't want to work hard. Amen. And I believe that sometimes, man, you you see in sports, you see in teams all the time, you see, hey, how did this kid come on this team? You know, he was drafted like so low, but look at this kid now. And that's just because he he was given a chance, and now he's saying, I'm not gonna blow that chance. And lots of times they learn that the team's gonna help them along the way, right? Yes. I love that.

Don Lindsey 11:50

When you're surrounded with good teammates, right, then teammates lift each other up and help each other be better in that process. And that's the key. It's it shouldn't be a competition, you know, it's not a me against that person, it's an us, you know, and so that's what it's about. When you have good teammates and you're helping each other be successful.

Jason Taylor 12:08

You've done a lot of coaching over your lifetime and you've worked with a lot of teams. What leadership lesson from the locker room has stayed with you throughout your career that you can take into business and take into your executive teams and your company teams?

Don Lindsey 12:22

The leadership lessons, boy, there are just so many of them. But I think really the biggest thing to me is that leaders are born, they're not made.

Jason Taylor 12:31

True. Yes.

Don Lindsey 12:32

Right. That's a big misconception. A lot of people think because they're in a leadership position, that they're uh they're a leader. But that couldn't be further from the truth. You know, oftentimes we, and I saw this in coaching, right? You take a kid that's a star player, you put him into the captain of the team, and he just struggles leading his team because he's not a leader. He's a really skilled player. But you take this other young man or young lady, and they're maybe not so skilled, but they're like who everybody looks to and rallies around, right, when there's an issue, and you make them a captain, and it's like, boy, when there's an issue, boy, that person, they take care of business. And so, you know, leaders are born. It's an inherent trait that they have to have. And so one of the things as I've developed my teams, I'm always looking for that natural-born leader. I'm looking for the leader that I'm gonna be able to lean on, that I'm gonna be able to rely on, that's gonna buy into my way of doing things, that's gonna be able to take my team forward and implement my initiatives.

Jason Taylor 13:42

You know, you and I have spoken about get get comfortable being uncomfortable, right? Yeah. Let's be completely transparent. When we're uncomfortable, that's actually when we're growing, right? That's when we're actually saying, oh, this is feeling awkward to me right now. It doesn't come naturally, right? So when we talk about getting comfortable being uncomfortable, how has that mindset changed the way you lead through uncertainty and resistance? How do you uh get your mindset to go there?

Don Lindsey 14:07

I have carved out my career on doing the things that other people won't do simply because they're hard. Right. It's a call it a human behavior or a human weakness or whatever you would like to call it. But most human people, human behaviors are that they, when things get hard, they will naturally back off. Shy away. That's shy away. And I come from a place, my upbringing was very not just low class, we were like low, low class. And so anything, my daddy used to say, anything worth having is worth working for. And some things are not fun, and that's why they call it work. And and so I've always found situations where I start to be uncomfortable as an opportunity for me to lean in and really start to be that person that and take on that position that others rarely will take on because it's uncomfortable. And so that's why I've become this turnaround guy and I've turned around organizations and taken on these restructuring roles. It's because it's really, really hard. You have to be comfortable in your own skin. You have to be comfortable with who you are, you have to be confident in who you are, not cocky, confident in your own abilities, but you also have to be humble enough to know that you don't know everything and you have a lot to learn. And a lot of people struggle with that, right? Because they do they struggle with the imposter syndrome, they want to be liked. Things just once they begin into leadership, they think it's supposed to get easier. You know, they want to tell people what to do, but they don't want to do it themselves, you know, so on and so forth. So, yeah. And so that for me.

Jason Taylor 15:56

I love what you said there because you talked a little bit about leadership, and sometimes the leader that we think it should be the leader isn't that leader. I'm a big believer in leadership without titles, right? In my business, I work with a lot of sporting teams and not just regular teams. We worked with professional hockey teams, football teams, baseball teams. And there was one hockey team we were working with, and you know, the captain of that team just the coaching staff was saying, Hey, listen, like, why can't we? I don't know why we can't, you know, get this person to lead a little more. Well, when we actually looked at the analytics and how he likes to lead, he's more of a lead by example. He's not the motivator, he's not the person that's gonna go rah-rah, shish, let's do this. But the alternate captains were. Right. So what we did is the mind shift, we said, hey, let let's let this leader lead by example, and let's let the the alternate captains actually say, Hey, we'll we'll take on the rah-rah-rah stuff. And then guess what? They they went on and they achieved greatness. It's amazing how people lead differently. And when you actually figure out how they like to lead, they actually excel. And what I often say to people is as a leader, you're always on stage. Somebody's always watching how you're behaving. Somebody's always seen if you shrugged your shoulders, if you rolled your eyes, if you actually buy into what I just said, right? So we have to know that as leaders, we're always on stage and the team's looking to see how you react to see if they want to follow or not.

Don Lindsey 17:22

I 100% agree. I think a lot of times people think if you're a leader, then you have to be a raw-rah guy. And and I have a lot of leaders working for me that are not raw, raw people. They're more introverted, but they're strong leaders. There's different kinds of leaders. And it's getting back to your, you know, your point is that when people are watching you, it's like I told somebody the other day, I said, what you tolerate is what you get. And so if you tolerate certain behaviors, then that all of a sudden becomes the behaviors you start getting among your team, not just with an individual. Yeah, leader-led. That's right. And so they're watching you. And if you all of a sudden you're like, oh, hey, that's okay, then next thing you know, everybody starts doing that. And so it's really important that you toe the line. But when you come into a situation that is brand new, like the ones that I have been in, and you tell people what you expect, oftentimes they just don't know what that looks like. They've never experienced it, they've never seen it. And so you have to demonstrate it for them. Hold my hand. Yeah. Yep. You have to demonstrate the behavior. You have to demonstrate servant leadership. You have to demonstrate accountability. You have to demonstrate honesty. You have to demonstrate those things directness so that they can visually see what that looks like. And then they can begin to do those behaviors as well.

Jason Taylor 18:46

Don, with some of the turnarounds that you've you've done, at those points you're making some really tough decisions about people to make sure that this company can turn around. What's your gauge and how do you read if this person just needs more coaching or if they just simply aren't the right fit and I and I need to get rid of them?

Don Lindsey 19:01

So I've been told, it's not from Don Lindsay, but I've been told that my superpower, my ability to read people, and uh, and that I could very quickly determine, you know, whether somebody is is of the character qualities that I want on my team. First and foremost, uh Jason, I hire character. I mean, that's that's key. The person has got to be got to fit the character qualities that I need to have. If they don't have the character qualities that I need to have, then they're gonna be on the the short list on their way out. Totally. Yeah. And they they understand that too. Absolutely. Secondly, as long as somebody is doing the work, if they have the character qualities and they're taking the coaching and they're doing the work, then I will hang in there with them for as long as I possibly can. If they're doing the work, they're taking the coaching, they're, you know, putting forth the core principles and they're doing everything they can, then I'm gonna pour myself into them and help them be successful. Now, they may not be an all-star, but if we could get them to that middle range, well then that that's acceptable, right? But if we get to that point where they're struggling, it's just they're just in a the wrong role, and you could see it's weighing on them. That that's just when we have a conversation. And I just let them know listen, this clearly is just not working. It's not, I I, you know, I see you trying, I know you're working hard and I value that, but this is just not a good fit. And so we're gonna have to make a change. And and those are probably the most difficult conversations, right? Because I I hired them, they have what I need that from a character standpoint, they're doing the work, they're doing everything I'm asking. They just don't have the aptitude to get to where I need them to be. And so as the leader of the organization, I have to make a decision that's best for the company. As I said early on, right? It's not about me, it's not about them, it's about what's best for the company. And that's what I'm employed and paid to do. I want to go back to that word trust.

Jason Taylor 20:59

I like to refer to it as a bank account. So I'm hoping that when I have a relationship with anybody in business, in sports, in my family, I've made more deposits of trust into that bank account with us than withdrawals. And of course, guess what? Sometimes there's withdrawals, right? Sometimes you say, Oh, I got that wrong and that didn't work. But when we talk about trust, accountability, and clarity, which one tends to break down first when a team starts to underperform?

Don Lindsey 21:27

I think clarity. I think as a leader, you have to bring clarity. You have to give them clarity on what the expectations are, on what you expect and what they expect. Because in the beginning, they don't trust you. They don't know you, right? There's no relationship. They can't be accountable yet because you're just starting out. They don't trust you. Matter of fact, they're like, I don't even know if I like this. It's not about like, but they don't, they don't trust you. And they're trying to decide if they like you or if they want to work for you. And so it's really about clarity, it's about understanding, okay. What's the new mission? What are the expectations? And does this fit with who I am as a person? And do I want to get involved? And then the accountability piece is kind of second. That's more of a behavior. The trust comes through that process. And that's part of developing the relationship. The relationship is the key to everything. You know, I've trained many salespeople, and I always hold up a pen. I say, hey, sell me the pen. And every one of them, right? They, oh, it's pen's great. And I finally I'm like, it's not about the pen. Right? It's not about the pen.

Jason Taylor 22:35

Yeah.

Don Lindsey 22:36

And so I go, can I sell you the pen? They go, great. I go, tell me about your writing, your writing habits.

Jason Taylor 22:42

Yeah, exactly.

Don Lindsey 22:44

You know, and so we start having a conversation. Next thing you know, I've sold them a dozen pens. And so the point is it's about the relationship. And in sales, you have to have a relationship with the person that you're talking with. Without that relationship, nothing happens. When you're leading a business, you have to have relationships with every person. And that doesn't mean that you're going to go out and have drinks with them after work or you're going to hang out with them and have barbecues. That means you have good, strong professional relationships. And in those relationships, they trust you. They know you have their back. And people will give you little opportunities. And they're going to watch and see how you handle those opportunities. Can they trust you? And once they see that they can trust you, then all of a sudden more starts coming and you start getting more from them. And that's when the real buy-in starts to happen.

Jason Taylor 23:37

Because again, that trust, you've you've made a deposit into their bank account and they say, you know what? I think I'm going to give this guy a try, right? 100%. Unreal. I love that. Let's talk about transformations. And you know, you've done a ton of them over the last 25 years. If I actually talk to you about transformations, what's one mistake you see leaders repeatedly make when you or they are trying to change culture?

Don Lindsey 23:59

What happens is leaders generally focus on leaders generally focus on things or start pulling levers that at the end of the day don't matter.

Jason Taylor 24:10

I love that. You know what? You're spending a whole bunch of time on nothing right now, right?

Don Lindsey 24:14

Yeah. I mean, they're looking at spreadsheets and pulling levers over here on numbers and financials and this and that. And it's like, listen, you're missing the boat, man. This guy's got a PhD or an MBA, and this is what he learned in college, and I respect that, but you don't have the team and the people to execute. So it doesn't matter. And so what happens is leadership doesn't spend enough time developing the people. The people are gonna move your business forward. I was speaking at an engagement one time, and I told a bunch of CEOs there, and I said, your business is only as strong as your people. I said, it's not about your fancy equipment, your shiny corner office, your big building, all that other stuff. And they looked at me, you know, like, yeah, what's this guy talking about? I said, without your people, nothing happens. And I was quiet and they were like, oh, yeah, this guy really doesn't know what he's talking about. And I said, go down to your shipping dock on a Sunday evening and let me know what happens. What's happening? Because you've got nobody filling the halls. Well, you take ordinary people and you give them the resources to do good work, they'll do extraordinary things. And I said, but you take ordinary people and you don't give them the resources and you don't give them the relationships, you don't give them a purpose, or you don't build a relationship, you don't give them a purpose. I said, then they're gonna struggle getting the performance out of them that is necessary to really drive that business forward. And so I see so many leaders and they're so educated, I mean, way more educated than me, and by all accounts, way smarter than I am, but they are so focused on the wrong things, they're pulling the wrong levers. Business is hard work, but it's not that complicated.

Jason Taylor 26:11

I think sometimes we make it complicated, and if we just dial it down, simplicity isn't everything. Don, I I have two questions for you. And when I say that, it's usually three, let's be honest. But I know you're busy. I appreciate the time you're given today. So I just got a couple more questions for you before I let you get back to it. So if you were walking into a brand new struggling company tomorrow, what's the first question you would ask the leadership team that you're about to take over to determine whether the organization is actually going to be able and capable of turning around?

Don Lindsey 26:44

I'd say if you were me, what would you do?

Jason Taylor 26:46

Yeah, if you were me, if you were in my seat.

Don Lindsey 26:48

If you were me, you're walking in here, you know nothing, you know nobody, you haven't been part of this organization. Now, most of these people, right, they've been here. They've got maybe most of them have great ideas, have lots of thoughts about the way things need to be and what needs to be done. They just haven't had the opportunity to share them or they have shared them, but nothing's thinking happen. So I pull them and I go, Hey, you're now the CEO. I work for you. I said, What would you do if you were me? I'd fire that guy because he sleeps half the day away. And guess what? The boss's sister is taking withdrawals every other, you know, minute. So there's a captive audience out there that has all the information, and we just have to pull that information out of them. I find that in these situations, businesses didn't get this way overnight, right? And they don't recover overnight. But oftentimes the issues are really pretty well understood by the people that have been there for a while. And I could pull in one of my main guys who's been here, you know, he's been here for over 25 years, loved the guy to death. And he's one of those seven. And he'll tell me, Don, it's an entirely different organization today than uh what it was before. And just listening to him tell me, you know, this the challenges before to where they were. And it was funny, early on in our transformation, he told me, says, Don, you got to be patient with me. And I said, Why? He goes, before, he goes, we had somebody in your seat that struggled making decisions. I mean, like they couldn't make a decision. He goes, Don, you make decisions in triplicate. He goes, you're you're flying around making decisions upon decisions. He goes, it's like really fast. So he goes, just give us patience, we'll catch up. And so I had to kind of slow down that process, right? So that to help them become more comfortable with that change.

Jason Taylor 28:48

I love that. You were self-aware enough, though, to say, hey, I need to slow down here. 100% of the time, a lot of leaders, when they're self-aware, get better results because they're a self-aware leader, right? And they understand how do their behaviors actually affect the team around them. You said something earlier that resonated with me. You said, listen, when I was growing up, I was in a lower income, you know, my dad was all about hard work and whatnot. And I find that with the best leaders around the world that I get the privilege of talking to and having discussions with, a lot of them grew up in chaos. And a lot of them grew up in, you know, they weren't handed anything. What's the common trait of growing up in chaos or low income or whatnot that makes somebody a great leader? What do you think that threat is?

Don Lindsey 29:29

So my daddy was a southern guy, and so, which is a whole story in itself, right? So I tell people that I'm a Yankee raised as a Southern kid. And so people from the South, there's a certain character qualities associated with that, right? And so, in addition to saying fix and twos and y'all's, we there's this character qualities of trustworthiness and honesty, and your word is gold and that kind of thing that come with that. And that was instilled in me in an old age, or the, I'm sorry, at a young age. My dad was disabled my whole life. But one thing he said to me, he said, Don, he said, you're always gonna find somebody that's more educated than you, that's got more experience than you, that's maybe better than you in certain areas, but no matter what, don't ever be outworked. That is the one thing you can control. And so I have hung my hat, Jason, on never being outworked. I will outwork you every day of the week. And because A, I'm highly competitive, and because that's just the way I'm wired, right? And then you take two dudes like you and me together, we won't be outworked. It's like, oh shoot, it's gonna be a long go, right? We're gonna have to agree to finally take a break. I think it's that understanding of work and knowing what work is and embracing that anything worth having is worth doing, and it's gonna take work and welcome it. And some work is fun and some work is not so fun, but it's all part of that process. And so my dad was a very, very, very introverted. He was the uh king of one-liners. He passed 10 years ago, probably 15 years ago now. And I still use his one-liners to this day. But that's that's one of the biggest things, right? I think most of us that came from that low-income, low-class, I mean, I used to stand in line for a five-pound government cheese, right? I started working at 10 years old, picking berries and snipping beans. And back in those days, you know, if I needed money, I'd collect cans along the highway. Cans, you know, here in Oregon now, this deposits a dime, but back then uh the cans were nickel, bottles were a dime, and two liters were 15 cents. And so I would get a plastic bag and walk the highway and pick up cans when I was seven years old just to get gas for my dirt bike.

Jason Taylor 31:48

If I had to see somebody on your team or you weren't in the room, and I said, you know, the company's, you know, Don's leaving the company tomorrow or whatever. What have you learned from Don? What is the one thing that you would hope that they'd say about your leadership and what they've learned from you?

Don Lindsey 32:04

I would hope that they would say, and is exactly what has been said to me, and is that lots of people talk about creating a team environment and supporting people and taking care of people. But Don, you're the first person to actually do it and live it. My CFO actually said that to me. And she's just, you know, five years from retirement. So she's been around for a while. And she goes, Everybody says it, Don. She goes, You're the first person that I've worked for has actually done it.

Jason Taylor 32:32

I love it. Don, man, I appreciate you. I appreciate your leadership style. I appreciate what you're trying to build. You are very much uh, let's leave a little more on the table than take. I just want to thank you for your time today because there's a lot of great nuggets in here for our audience to take and listen to and just digest. Yeah, thank you for your time today, Don.

Don Lindsey 32:50

Brother, I appreciate you. Man, I'll tell you, you know, just the short time we've had together, you and I are going to be uh joined at the hip for a long time. So I appreciate you, man.

Jason Taylor 33:00

I agree. Perfect. If you love that session and that conversation as much as I did, would love to have you join our People Playbook community in the link below.