Jason Taylor 0:00

Welcome to this edition of the People's Playbook Podcast. I have to tell you, I'm pretty pumped to talk to my guest today. George is a colleague I know in the industry well. I also consider George a friend. And I go to George for advice many times just because I like his aspect and the way he thinks of things. George is a principal uh consultant at Knowledge Tree Consulting and has more than 35 years of hands-on experience building and growing businesses. He spent decades leading a company called Oreo Landscaping, and now he helps business owners strengthen their people, their processes, optimizing their business in a whole and and just creating uh a better structure for financial freedom and getting them a little more on the business as opposed to in the business. So, George, welcome to the show today.

George Urvari 0:46

Well, thanks, Jason. I'm honored to be on your show. And uh I can see you're doing great things out in the marketplace too. So it's uh it's kind of cool to see uh somebody that we actually we actually leveraged in the past for the uh PI index, which was very useful and insightful um as a tool to screen people. So yeah, it was uh it was amazing.

Jason Taylor 1:06

George, you've uh you spent more than 35 years building and leading the landscaping business, and you are in in my my personal opinion and knowing you, you are a true builder of kind of things that you do. You love building, right? What did the experience teach you about people the most that no business book could teach you along the way just by building these businesses?

George Urvari 1:29

Yeah, that's a great question. So we've got uh four or five businesses that run only the knowledge tree consulting, is the one I'm actually actively involved in on the ground as well as building the business. The other ones run without me. So what I I didn't quite realize how much diversity of talent you actually need on a team to really grit to the next level. Um I think I think, and then actually the irony is you may not even know what your talent is and then how to leverage it. So you you may not fit in in certain instances, and in the right circumstance, everything just sinks. And uh I think that's been my biggest learning moment. And then learning now as a business leader how to manage the talents and align them so they function in a cohesive and um smooth way. So I think that's the biggest takeaway that I learned that you don't get big. There's a bit of accident there. Once you resolve the accident, it becomes a plan, a people plan.

Jason Taylor 2:28

I like what you said about the you know, the only business you're really in right now is Knowledge Tree, right? So how was that path where you, because we all go through passing life and whatnot, how was that path where you said, you know what, I don't think the business needs me anymore, and I can actually remove myself from this business. And I know, I know you are how you are and how you behave. How uncomfortable was that to do at first? And what were you able to do to get you into a comfortable way of doing that?

George Urvari 2:57

Yeah, so I'm an extrovert, and um I find that extroverts have eureka moments. And so I decided to do some research on efficiency and I watched a TED talk about flow efficiency. And once I understood that concept, within a year I was able to apply the framework of that, and that allowed me to completely step away from the business. So essentially it comes down to having an agenda, having meetings that identify every single item in a repetitive way, and eventually someone else can take that over and you step out of the way and the business runs without you. It's really that simple. So rather than me being in the middle of everything, it really is that magical agenda. And getting the agenda perfected is a ton of work. Figuring out which meetings you need to have, how many you need to have, what size of business, what meetings you have, the frequency, that's another battle. We figured that out within a year and essentially was focusing on meetings, meetings, meetings, meetings. How do I get world-class meetings? And then I could see, hey, I'm gonna see what happens if I don't show up. So the answer was shedding the hats was extremely easy once I could see that the process was better than I ever could be. And I think that was the secret. So I'm not, I'm great at delegating, actually. And so it wasn't a big deal for me. For other people, it's way harder. It's their baby. I'm a little less detached to the baby. I like to make new babies. Yeah, yeah. So that's another way to look at it.

Jason Taylor 4:18

Yeah. What makes a great meaning? So I know you're big into communication, so and you you like to lead companies that way. So what makes um meaning excellence? Like how do you how do you do that?

George Urvari 4:29

Right. So we have uh an agenda structure that essentially addresses in major categories what it is that you need to talk about with subsets of items underneath that agenda category. So, first of all, create categories, break it down, make sure it represents the urgent and important workflows of the business. So, for example, let's say we're having an operations meeting. We will have an HR component first in that meeting, because the HR manager, if it's a big enough company, has to be there. And then they can step away. They don't need to worry about which projects are gonna be going. They don't need to worry about what machines are broken down, none of that stuff matters to them. However, at the beginning of the meeting, you need their involvement of do we have any short-term issues, long-term issues? Are there any threats on the horizon? Somebody's gonna leave for Jamaica and never come back, you know, meet some love of their life or something. So those things are all part of the there's a day-to-day component, and then there's the extrapolation of like what's gonna hurt me in the future. And if you infuse that logic into your meetings, then you're thinking forward and you are not wasting time being in a in a lane that you don't need to be in. Now, unfortunately, for smaller businesses with not enough people to handle, say, the HR piece, it might be a multi-hat, they wouldn't leave the meeting because they're they're they have another hat on. So as the companies get better, this also helps you shed hats. So when you hire somebody, they can take over that hat because it's in the agenda. And they literally learn to recite it almost um by memory. So it's pretty cool.

Jason Taylor 5:58

That's awesome. And when you said smaller companies, what is your if I had to look at your ideal client that actually comes to you for for consulting and whatnot, what size of company is that usually? And I'm talking people size, not revenue size.

George Urvari 6:10

Yeah. So honestly, we have some startups. So, you know, there's there's four types of reasons people come for help. One is they are in pain. So, you know, if your toothaches, you're gonna go to the dentist. Um, you're curious, you're inspired. And then the last one is you you have a wealthy mindset. And ideally, that's where everybody should be. That's not where everybody is. And there are really two types of companies companies that are distressed, and there are companies that are sort of opportunity companies. They all need help to see around the corner. So somebody who's been around the corner can tell them what's coming and what the next moves are gonna be. And so I would say any company that has open-minded leadership and is willing to learn. And, you know, we also want to have a culture of inclusivity. So we want to have the rest of the team there, not just the leaders. So in a small business, it might be less we we just meet with the owner. Well, you know what? That office manager is pretty important to your success. And if they're not there, you got the silo of stupidity. And so you have you have the owner that now knows everything, great, and they the right hand is doesn't know what to do. So it's important to bring the team together around this learning. I love it.

Jason Taylor 7:21

You uh and I have had uh discussions about kaizen before. And um, I know that uh you it's funny when I just said that your eyes lit up a bit, right? So I get I could it's just it's a very passionate uh subject for you. So you said that challenging employees led you to, you know, discover kind of the whole Kaizen theory. How did that experience change the way you think about leadership?

George Urvari 7:42

Well, it's definitely had a big impact where people take initiative on their own. I think that's the biggest part. The culture piece is huge. Yes, we can instead of we can't. That's a big uh game changer. So those employees that are not pushing with you, but are pushing against you either have to come around to the right side or they have to join another team. And um, that's really important. And as a leader, I think that's the hardest part is the people part, as you know, you've you you you understand that part of the business like nobody else. And so, how do you change the person? Or in another way of saying it, how do you change the person? So we have a line the people will change, or the people will change. So I think Kaizen people culture process recognizing that the first part is getting the hearts and minds of the people and different vectors to achieve that goal. And then the second part is getting the culture to we're aiming toward a goal together to improve everyone's lives, including our customers, our shareholders, and our employees. So we have employees first, customers second, shareholders third, and then coming up with the best processes that are at least the least friction to achieve the outcome. So when you implement a new process, most people hate it. And most processes that you implement are terrible. And so people won't use it. So the process has to be really, really friendly, user-friendly. Sure. Um, you know, the best example I can give you is if I had a walkway that was a 90-degree angle, I guarantee people are gonna cut the corner. So you should design the cut in the corner because that's what they're gonna do naturally. So yeah, Kaizen's had a huge influence on the business. And um, the latest framework that we've got now is essentially strategy communication accountability. So everybody's talking about SOPs. An SOP is useless if you have poor communication. So you could write all the SOPs, but Jason, if you don't respond to my email within, let's say, 24 hours, that's great that you should have done that. And now I don't know what's going on. So strategy, communication, accountability, that is leadership, that is management, that is culture. If you get that right, then you can really start dialing in the rest of the business.

Jason Taylor 9:45

Yeah, absolutely love it. I love too how you said, and I think a lot of business owners get this wrong. Your order was your team, the the customer, and then shareholders. Yeah, did I get that right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel that a lot of owners and business leaders, sometimes they put that our team kind of second or third sometimes, even, right? They just think customer, customer, customer. But if we actually get that team part proper the first time and we put them first, the customer experience is going to be absolutely phenomenal. Oh, absolutely.

George Urvari 10:16

Yeah, you're absolutely right on that.

Jason Taylor 10:18

Yeah, absolutely. And and sometimes we just think, you know what? And I often talk to people, you know, in my world, George, where if I'm a vendor and I'm I'm going to have a meeting with you and you're booked at that time with your teammate or a meeting with your internal team or a review, performance review, whatever it is. There's so many owners that will go, oh, let me just delay that meeting and I'll meet with you, Jason. And I I actually say, No, I'm second. Your team is first. Yes. Right? You you shouldn't be canceling their because that says something when you cancel the meeting with them. Cancel me. And then you and I rebook as opposed to somebody on your team, right? Sure, there's circumstances and things that happen throughout the day that sometimes we have to just deal with, but uh, you know, so many people think it's everybody else first and then their team. And and I love how you just put that spin on it. No, it's you it's your team first, absolutely. You said right person, right chair. You know that's right in my heart, right? So right person, right chair, and just making sure they're doing the right role. What do you think the biggest mistake owners make when building their teams?

George Urvari 11:20

Well, they suck as leaders. I'll start with that. Um just, you know, like this is an interesting thing. If I said to you, what is a great leader? Well, first of all, there are different types of leaders. So you need to know that. And then what type of leader am I? Yeah. And then who is around me to support my strengths and weaknesses? Do I want to have a culture, a command culture which can work, or do I want to have a democratic culture? So there are so many parts. And then, you know, am I what's my personality profile? Am I even wired for real leadership? And, you know, I could be a leader and be in a supporting role, that's still leadership. So leadership doesn't have to be from the front. It can be in a guidance format, it can be in a supportive format, it can be in an educational format. So, you know, a lot of the work you do is a leader in education. And actually, that ties back to the three categories of employee I have, which are dependent, autonomous, and teacher. Teachers, great teachers, are force multipliers. And so who is that in your organization? In your case, it may be they bring you in because you're the teacher and they don't actually have that talent nor the experience. So they outsource it, and it's actually a very inexpensive investment to have somebody come in the right time, the right place to imbue the right ideas and um or sometimes implement things so they stick. So uh I think being a teacher, a teacher is the most underrated leadership role on the planet, and we need more of them and better ones. Yeah. It's hard to find great leaders nowadays. Hello. Yeah. So think back, Jason, when you were a kid. Uh if you can look at all your teachers, how many ones would you go, wow, they wow, they really influenced me in a great way. It's probably less than a handful.

Jason Taylor 13:10

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's it you know what question I usually ask too, George, is I'll tell people I'll say, raise your hand. I'll be in a group and I'll say, Raise your hand if you can remember the best leader you worked for. And some hands go up and whatnot, and or they or you know, hands go up and they kind of go up like this, right? I'll say, Raise your, raise your hand if you remember the worst manager or leader you worked for. And they, George, they shoot up like this. They and and then I talk about that. I go, why why was that a such and it's it's amazing. As leaders, I think people don't understand what an important role that is in somebody's life. And when when we work, we work, you know, when we're working for somebody else, we work for them, you know, let's be honest, 40 plus hours a week. We see them probably more than our family at times, right? So I almost think of it as an obligation to be a great leader because you're spending a lot of time with that person, and you've heard me talk about better work, better world, right? So uh I want you to actually like the experience so much that you don't think of this as work and you actually love being here. So so you want to stay for a long time. And then that's in turn, we know that that increases culture, which has a direct line on my bottom line. It's gonna help it's gonna help me. If I'm if I'm a better leader to you, it's gonna help my financials 100%.

George Urvari 14:22

Oh, yeah. Well, there's also an emotional. So when I talk about currencies, what are the different currencies? There's time, money, and grief, right? So you can make more money and lose your hair and have a numbers breakdown, or you could make a lot of money and have fun. I don't know. I think fun's pretty, pretty important currency, right? Yeah. And um, the other interesting thing too is we talk about leadership. I think, I think the word managers disappeared, unfortunately, from the vocabulary. Everybody's talking about leaders. There have to be great managers. I agree. And great managers essentially hold people to task through the best ones, don't make you feel bad and they get you to want to do what needs to get done. So it's about encouragement, it's about processes. So in our business, uh, one of our partners, Benoit, he is a phenomenal manager and he's implemented a Sana that then ties into our meanings and our structures and our agendas, and we can see the short term, the long term, and the immediate needs, and our agendas are driven around that to make sure we're aligned on task. And that management skill is that is even rarer than great leaders. So, so because you said that you just said that you asked how many great bad managers you have, everybody put up their hands. The leaders, they're not sure what that really means. But a manager, you know when they suck. And most managers suck because they got promoted, not because they're great managers, because that's the next rung on the ladder. And I guess the position's available, right?

Jason Taylor 15:55

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's it's it's amazing how um they influence our lives. You talk a lot about future. I like that. I like that every conversation I have, and you actually get me thinking of my own businesses as well, George, is your meetings seem to be more about what's coming up as opposed to rear view, look at what's happened, right? So I think that as leaders, people think that they do that a lot, but I think that they actually don't spend we we we talk so much about in meetings on what didn't work, what did work, what what you know went well with that. And we don't talk about, hey, what's coming up, right? And when I work with businesses, I say, okay, what's coming up? Right? Like what that's done. It's in the past. Yeah. So you talk a lot about in your meetings. You talk about, hey, you're always talking about future and making sure we have our eye on that.

George Urvari 16:43

Yeah. So one of the interesting things that I've learned is if you have a great business, you're looking at your balance sheet more than once a year. And that balance sheet should be improving, right? So true. And so, you know, the where you where you see proof in the pudding, and it's very few companies that'll ever find this. If you were to ever sell your business, if you are to sell your business and you and your business, let's say the asset value, you know, assets minus liabilities equals equity, and your equity is X, okay? When you sell the business, you're going to get equity plus, which is essentially the goodwill of the business. And every, every right thing that you do ends up being that equity plus. And everything you wrong, the thing that you do wrong reduces your equity. So to give you an idea, I say to people, okay, what's the 10-year cost of that mistake? What's the 10-year cost of that delay? What's the 10-year cost of that investment? Or it's not even a cost, it's actually a force multiplier. And on your on your income statement, it'll show up as an expense. It'll eventually show up as a profit, which will then go to your balance sheet, either as dividends or or equity in the business. And so when you sell your business, and most companies never even get around to that stage, what you did right, the sum of all that is a cumulative effect that essentially builds wealth and value in your business. And most people forget that. So I always say, okay, that that mistake is going to cost you this. And in 30 years, the multiplier of that is this much, or that investment and that savings perpetuated is going to be this much money. And sometimes it's millions of dollars, which essentially pads your balance sheet. So if you're blowing money, let's say, on here's an example. I should hire Jason Taylor for leadership because the company's doing the wrong things, going the wrong direction, and we're, and we're losing people because there's misalignment. Let's say I fixed that and I didn't lose that superstar. The value of that is enormous. How much money are we going to save because we kept that wicked controller who is managing the budget to make sure we're not overspending the wrong areas? Maybe we should invest more in that consulting, less in the marketing, because we have so much organic demand anyway. Uh spending money on marketing is the wrong, wrong investment. So we're overspending. So I always go to Kaisen, the 10 types of waste. What type of waste is happening? Can I identify it? Can I cut it or can I minimize it? Or can I invest in something that will have a multiplier effect in the future? So I always look at what's the number today, what's the number next year, and 10 years, what would that impact on the income statement be to the bottom line and also to the balance sheet? And if you start thinking like that, then you become a future thinker. So here's a great one. Your books suck. Most companies' books suck. Now you could remap the whole set of books and then try and compare your numbers. It still won't be useful because you essentially move the goalpost of comparison. Why not just scrap your books, archive them, and start fresh with a new set of books that are proper? Right? You'll save yourself a huge amount of money and grief, yet your accountant is telling you you shouldn't do that. You got to have this, you have historical that you guarantee you're never going to look back two years from now. I guarantee it. Yeah. Take three numbers. What was my net profit? What was my gross profit? That's all I need to know for the last three years. And if it's going up or down, I'll know. And everything else is irrelevant. Believe me, you're not going to do a um a line-by-line analysis from 2024. It's not going to happen.

Jason Taylor 20:08

100%. Let's talk about wealth for a second because you talk, uh, you've talked to me about the difference between growing organically in your business or actually looking and looking at acquisition. What are your thoughts on that? And how do leaders think when you when you approach them on that subject?

George Urvari 20:25

Right. So the question is am I ready for the growth? Can my team handle the absorption of another company? Have I done due diligence on the company, not just financials, but cultural due diligence? Are they a good fit? And there's actually eight different types of growth, which is kind of crazy. So there's uh I'll I won't remember them all, but I'll start with a couple. There's improvement growth. I just got better and I made more money. There is organic growth. I do a good job, and people tell people about Jason. Jason gets more business. There is vertical integration where Jason finds an uh, let's say, uh a financial person and integrates a financial piece into his business because he's already touching on those things. There is horizontal integration. I'm going to take on a business that's identical to mine and absorb it. There is, um, I forgot the name of it, but essentially what it is, I'm going to take the complimentary business. It's uh, I don't know, you decide to get an insurance, Jason, because you've already got the clients and why not? There is franchise. And then I think the uh the other one is where you develop some sort of unique product that is like an invention that you then monetize. So essentially there's different ways to grow. Yeah. And which growth strategy may so it could be Jason, you decide that you know you're happy with your current business, but you're going to take your profits and invest them into real estate. So you build a real estate front. Great. That's another type of growth. It may not be your primary business, however, it's a secondary business that's actually growing your businesses. Yeah. So it doesn't have to be just the business you're in. Uh, and people seem to miss that fact. So, you know. If I'm Jason and I can make more money flipping real estate or uh renting it out with less effort, passive income. I don't have to travel, I don't have to, I would do that and I would grow my bottom line. So yeah, growth is an interesting thing.

Jason Taylor 22:14

Yeah. Let's keep going on uh about growth and how how it affects leadership and how it affects companies, right? So you've seen businesses grow sometimes too quickly.

George Urvari 22:23

Yeah.

Jason Taylor 22:24

And when they do grow uh too quickly and lose control, what leadership behaviors do you see tend to disappear once that growth starts moving too fast?

George Urvari 22:32

So stress changes your behavior. Sometimes leverage changes people, so they realize they're over-leveraged and they're having cash flow issues. They might have cash flow and people issues. In other words, people are running for the exits because things aren't going well. The handoffs are not working properly, there's blame culture that creeps in, and it's very difficult to change fixed mindsets. So uh, you know, you're talking about acquisitions, so I'll pivot to that. When I buy a business, I'm buying all of the problems and all of the things that run well and potentially the opportunities, right? Yes. Yep. But I may not know that Jenny hates Sue and they they don't get along, and then Jenny's gonna quit. And now on top of that, I now have to pay the severance. Oops, didn't factor for that. Oh, and Jenny has all of the stuff on her desktop, and uh when she leaves, I lose all of that stuff. Oh, and she takes a bunch of the clients. Sure. And I and I bought this business, right? That doesn't show up on the income statement or the balance sheet.

Jason Taylor 23:35

No, and it and by the way, it's it's a massive, it's a massive chunk.

George Urvari 23:39

Oh my God. So, but imagine that your business is run well and the business you're buying is run well, you have very few headaches. It's a matter of figuring out who's doing the laundry, who's uh, you know, cleaning the bathrooms, who's cooking dinner, who's dropping the kids off at school. It's really about an alignment issue. It's no longer like I won't do that, or you know, I hate doing that, or it's blending the companies together in a smooth way without people who are obstructing. So growth, I the really like to buy businesses, Oriol NCP likes to buy businesses. And the reason is I get instant talent. I get instant management if I'm buying a big enough company. If I'm buying a small company, I get instant superstars. I don't really care about the assets, and I might get instant customers. The trick is I think you're really buying people when you buy a business, to be honest with you.

Jason Taylor 24:30

Yeah.

George Urvari 24:31

That's what you're buying. And you're either buying ugly people or beautiful people.

Jason Taylor 24:35

Yeah, exactly. You've walked into, let's, you know, based on what you do, you walked into some businesses that are really struggling, right? What usually is the first people problem that you notice that you a lot of times the owner doesn't notice? That's a great question.

George Urvari 24:50

Two answers to that. One is at the leadership level, are the leaders aligned? So if they're fighting each other, that's ugly, and they may think it's normal, it's absolutely toxic. That's one. And then at the at the staff level, I think tolerating mediocrity. So I have a tool that we use, uh, it's called the HR balance sheet. And essentially you list your assets and liabilities. So assets are great people, and you list your liabilities by um not great people. At the top of the list is your worst performer. And then the question is, what are the chances of reform? Right? High or low? Yeah. Because I'd like to try and get everybody the opportunity to move to the asset side of the human balance sheet. The next question would be, am I going to get rid of them? And the answer should be yes. And then the only question is if yes, when? And then the next question is, how much is it gonna cost me to get rid of them? And is part of the delay that I can't find a replacement? So, you know, the whole HR piece is can somebody step up to fill that void if they're gone? Could I compensate them to pick up the slack of that person? And do I have my recruitment machine wound up to find a replacement? So the terrifying thing about recruitment is people don't realize this. Oh, I'm just gonna find this person and plug them in. It's only a 30% chance you're gonna be right. Because there's so much luck involved, right? Even with all the best teachers, you pull in PI, you you take best questions, still the person could, I don't know, get sick. The person's husband could get transferred, or wife can get transferred, the kid could get sick. Like there's so many reasons it doesn't work out. And so I think identifying who shouldn't be on the team is part of the process most businesses don't go through. And they they tolerate the mediocrity. And I think that will prevent your business from growing for sure.

Jason Taylor 26:39

Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about you kind of your journey because you were an operator for years, right? You were an operator and and you know, ran, you know, Oriel and whatnot. And then you transferred over to a consultant, which I think was a brilliant move based on your knowledge, based on your experience, based on how you like to implement things. I think you're excellent at what you do. What's the one leadership lesson that you had to learn the hard way from doing that jump?

George Urvari 27:03

Yeah, I think for me, I recognize the the power of some a procedural leader, somebody who's a bureaucratic leader that can create processes that people will follow that make sense. So you want to improve your business. It's all about having the right processes and having people follow the processes willingly. So unless you have somebody who's wicked at creating process and has all of the different parts of the business aligned with that process, here's a great example. Okay, you've got an insurance doc and you want to store it on your file tree. Where do you store it? And how many people need that document? Well, HR needs it, finance needs it, and operations need it, and the insurance company needs it. So who stores it? Who's responsible? Who's accountable? What tasks are there? How are they integrated? How do we make sure that this thing's up to date, right? So, you know, I'll give you an example of a procedural error. I've got this document and I didn't update the fact that the machine's three years old, which means let's say depreciated a lot and someone stole it, they're gonna give me the after three year depreciation value for replacement. Whereas if if I had a fleet rotation schedule and I flipped that within three years, I would always get a new replacement. So, you know, is my is my strategy all aligned to make sure that my risks are mitigated? So all of these things and aligning them so everybody can work on the document in real time. They know where it is on the server. It should be in its own place that's kind of like an everybody place, kind of like the kitchen. Everybody in your house, I guarantee you, no matter where they are, they're going to the kitchen. So the kitchen is the kick the meeting area, and there are all the ingredients there to make that amazing soup or stew. Yeah. And is there instructions to make that stew? So if you've got that dialed in, your processes become so easy. You don't forget if you can create automated reminders, infuse them into your meeting structure. Hey, did we cover this? Who's accountable? That'll make a huge difference. So process, process, process. And also in a small business that's multi-hat, you need to build from the task level, not the position level. Okay. Because there are crossovers on the tasks. And so what are the tasks? And then who am I signing the task to? It's not like in a bigger company, you know, you're in recruitment and HR. Like literally, you know, you're not into exits, you're not into onboarding, you're not into ordering t-shirts, all that stuff. You're in recruitment. And you, it's really simple. It's a very defined role. In a small business, you're wearing, you know, eight or nine HR hats and probably neglecting a bunch of them. And so if that's true, it literally needs to be assigned by the task, and somebody else might actually take on the responsibility of some of the tasks because you're also in sales. And that conflicts. Yeah, getting your wins right, getting your processes down, getting the who does what when, um, and then learning how to shed the hats. I think that's that's critical. Like what hat should I shed first is another huge dilemma. Most people ironically try to bring on salespeople too early. Yeah. And um that's not the first thing that they should shed is their sales hat. That's usually a disaster.

Jason Taylor 30:12

Ugh, what do you think?

George Urvari 30:13

Usually a CFO? CFO is the number one thing I would want to bring in, or a controller at a minimum. That's the number one thing. And then the next one I would do is the operations hat because it's the least focused role and you're getting peppered constantly. Then the HR hat would be the next one I would shed. And then I'd, if in a smaller company, I had operations and HR, you can combine them and separate them when you grow. And then um, there's the general manager, which is the next hat that you can shed. Then you go to the CEO level and you can shed that hat and then out you go or become chairman. So there is a natural progression that you have to go through. And most people shed the wrong hats or hold on to them too wrong. That could be also an issue.

Jason Taylor 30:52

George, that that leads me into our last question with you today, because you've been more than generous with your time. And I have to tell you, every time we talk, there's a little piece of advice or a little nugget I take from you, and I think, oh shit, I need to do that. Like I actually need to take that. So I I really appreciate I always appreciate your time, and I always appreciate getting some conversations with you. So thank you for that. Last question I would have because you've been so successful at doing this. So if you could give a business owner today that's running a company one piece of advice about building a team that could eventually operate without them, the the exact thing that you've done. So that's why I'm asking you this question because you've done it. It's not like you've talked about doing it, you've actually done it. What would that one piece of advice be?

George Urvari 31:36

So I think leadership and analytical thinking into the future is what's missing in most businesses. They're mostly tacticians that are the owners of the business. So they need to bring somebody in who either works in the business or an outside expert like yourself or say myself to help them navigate that change in mindset. And so everybody has blind spots and you will never operate well if you're missing information. So awareness, understanding, acceptance, leap of faith, actualization, gratitude. Who's the game-changing person on your team that's gonna win you the NBA championship? Oh, the Raptors.

Jason Taylor 32:19

Yeah, yeah.

George Urvari 32:20

So they had Mick Nurse, the the coach, and they brought in Kawhi Leonard, and good stuff happened. Yeah. And so I think that's what the teams need. And they're out there and they're available, they're guns for hire. And you don't even have to pay for them. They don't have to be on your payroll forever. It's the cheapest investment. You can be wrong, however, you still have to try until you find that right magic that's gonna make move the needle for you.

Jason Taylor 32:43

So I think that's really what it is. Absolutely love that, George. With that, I'm gonna let you get back to your day. I know you're you're not a gentleman that looks for things to do. So there's there, your your calendar's packed. Uh, I thank you for your time. I thank you for the nuggets and the the advice and just leadership and how you look in totality at a at a company and and why leadership is so important. And with that, I'll I'll wish you a great day. Oh, thanks, Jason.

George Urvari 33:07

I really appreciate it. This is a great podcast. And um, yeah, I'm gonna be looking forward to you know looking at my own podcast, see where I fell short, and then look at the other podcast to see what kernels of wisdom I can gain from them. So thank you for doing this. Appreciate it, George.

Jason Taylor 33:21

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