Jason Taylor 0:00

I am privileged to have in the studio today Sean Black. Sean is the founder of Sheepdog Brew Company who has been able to build a fast-growing Canadian cold brew coffee brand rooted in principle, clarity, and uh connection. What's really interesting is Sean's a former Winnipeg police officer. He has been part of the Canadian Armed Forces Combat Engineer, and he brings a rare frontline perspective to leadership and building companies with purpose. Sean, welcome to the People's Playbook today. I'm pumped to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I love that you're here, Sean. I, as you know, I'm a big fan, and uh I love it when companies just kind of start fresh and people take risks and chance and whatnot. So let's get right into the the gritty parts of the of the conversation today. So let let's kind of move back based on your history and what you've you've come from. So you've been able, while you've led in life and death environments, you know, how did that experience permanently change the way you make people decisions as a CEO and a founder of Cool Brew?

Shawn Black 1:03

You know what's funny is that I actually, for a brief time when I was first getting the brand going, I actually got away from some of those values that hold the police and military together. And I felt like the private sector was going to be very different. But really, as we've I've like kind of stepped into my own here with the company and the company's growing really fast, I've actually realized how many of those values I should be applying. And I've actually really gone back and had to go back in time and think about, you know, what actually holds like the police together? Like what's the glue there? Because when you deal with situations that are extreme where people can die or go to jail, you better have good systems and you better have good policies and you better have good people and you better have good culture. So I've actually really gone back to that and said, you know what, I I have to really lean into those core concepts and apply them at the business here. So Yeah.

Jason Taylor 1:58

You basically you've gone back to basics, South. Very much so.

Shawn Black 2:01

Yeah. Very much so.

Jason Taylor 2:03

Yeah. And isn't it amazing when we don't make things confusing and we just keep the basics and keep things simple, it just becomes a little clearer. There's clarity, people know what lane they're supposed to be in, and we're able to we're able to grow that much faster.

Shawn Black 2:17

Well, I think with a big one, and I think a lot of companies don't do this, but I think this the successful ones do is we go back to our mission all the time. So I spend almost all of my time making sure that we're always headed towards the same goal, and we talk about the goals a lot. And that's really important because like the Canadian military, for example, the reason why they were so successful through the world wars is they had a rank structure that always focused on the job of the person two levels above you. And so you're always learning about, okay, ahead of me, what is the goal of that? What is the goal? And so that's been a big one for me is like always going back to what is the mission of the company. And so we have, I have big goals, and we're very specific about how we're gonna get them done at the macro, but at the micro, it's like lots of freedom. So I want all of our people to know as long as they're working towards that goal, we're gonna get there. And you it's on everyone's plate to make sure that they're doing the things that are within their sphere of influence that can actually work towards that goal.

Jason Taylor 3:18

Yeah. I like what you said there too, because it it their sphere of influence, you know, if they just do what they're supposed to and stay in their lane, we actually get to where we need to go a lot quicker and easier, right? We don't eat we don't eat soup with a fork, we eat soup with a spoon, right? And we get a lot more done. From my interactions with you and our relationships, well, I'll put it to you this way many leaders actually confuse intensity with effectiveness. If I had to ask you what policing taught you about staying calm in in stakes or when stakes are high, what what would your response be? How do you stay calm when stakes are high and and just make sure that we're effective and and and managing that intensity?

Shawn Black 3:59

When we do our training in the police for our police vehicle operations or driving techniques, the slogan is always smooth is fast, fastest smooth. And and even if you look at like any if you watch a video online of like a SWAT team or a TAC team, and I was never a tactical guy, but they never run up to the house. You know, they and they and when when we're learning how to drive the police car, it's not about pedal to the floor, it's all about the fastest yet smoothest motion. And so smooth is better than fast because fast gets messy. So I think that for us it's all about aggressive planning, really talking about goals, and then we go as fast as we can smoothly, because one of the fast lessons I had to learn was every mistake that we make costs us five times as much money and resources and time as something 30% slower done smoothly. So for me, that's been a big one is how do we get there smooth and smooth as fast.

Jason Taylor 5:04

Yeah, what an excellent answer. I often talk about that as momentum. It's easier to go from 60 to 100 in a car than it is zero to 60, right? And you're right. Your analogy there was was brilliant because you can actually go zero to 100 really fast, but it's gonna be messy along the way. There's gonna be there's gonna be some tire burns and and it's it's gonna get it's gonna get a little chaotic if you do that. So I love how your approach is, you know, just get the speed, but make sure that we get that speed gradual and do it in in a safe, in a safe, make sense way. Sean, Sheepdog has been built on principle and purpose. How do you pressure test those values when growth demands increase and speed up based on being a startup company that you're scaling up right now? How do you how do you pressure test that?

Shawn Black 5:53

It's an ongoing battle. And and we've we're doubling in size pretty quick. I just hired four new people, which I'm sure for some of your customers is not a lot, but for starting out of a farmer's market selling coffee every weekend to where and so what I I think about is all of the touch points with our business, whether it's a customer, a supplier, or a consumer, has to be really good. And so I try to set that tone from the very beginning. So when it comes to our consumers, I talk about about with my team how we're a third sale company. So if the first coffee is free, if the second one's half off, if we're giving away some, you know, people love like stickers and stuff, that's fine with me because I want people to be a part of our brand and our brand stands on values that they want to be a part of. And so I'm not pushing for people to purchase something right away because what I believe that we are building is a is a culture and a community. And so that culture and community builds around us and people become loyal and they become friends too. Like our store, I can't sometimes I can't even go to our store because there's so many people that want to come visit, and it's just it eats up most of my days. So I'd say the first one is just like, you know, how do all of our touch points? So, like our delivery driver, like I want him to chat with people so he keeps a log of you know things about people's lives, and he'll go back the next delivery day and ask them about their kids' hockey tournament or whatever. And like that's part of our coaching that we do. And then and more at a macro scale, like we gave away every dollar of profit we made for the first seven years to charities that we supported. And so with that, we've been able to partner with a core kind of group of charities that all align with our values. So we don't do videos saying or Instagram ads saying, you know, we look at all the money we gave to this charity, but instead what we do is we showcase that charity and we like do a video series and we we we tell the story behind it and we really try to sink into the people part of it. And and then those charities that we support and organizations we support are also companies or charities or nonprofits that align with our values so that anytime you look at our company, you're like, oh, I know what these people are about. There's no confusion. And it's more than just like, you know, we're not just a big corporate entity that's cutting a check and being like, okay, put our logo up. Like we're gonna go above and beyond. And we've built that right into our marketing plan. So our whole marketing plan is based around quarterly, intentional, community-building charity work that we want to be. So it sets the form for everything.

Jason Taylor 8:25

Yeah, it feels very grassroots, it feels very local.

Shawn Black 8:28

Yeah, and I think that's one of the things we talk about now is how do we take that and take that local power and magnify it to make it like I want to be international, but in the short term, you know, nationally, what can we do across the country now where we're saying, you know, someone in Halifax and someone in Victoria who aligns with what we like to do, and if it's whether supporting veterans or children in poverty, like whatever we're doing, they can be like, wow, if I'm gonna spend money on a company, it's gonna be this one because look at what they're doing for these people, right?

Jason Taylor 8:58

Yeah. Yeah. And it you do it in a very selfless way. It doesn't, you're you're what I like about well, your kind of vision and the way you conduct yourself and you've oozed that out in your culture, your company is it's not like, you know, let me pound my chest and show you the big check I wrote. It's more exactly what you just said. It's just more, hey, let like here's what we're doing. We're trying to help out, and would love you to help out as well.

Shawn Black 9:21

Well, and and at the beginning, like when we first opened our production facility, I didn't have a lot of money to give away because like a startup is real like Yeah, it takes all your money right away, right? So what I did instead was what we were able to do was build a fairly large social media following. And I and I would tell people, hey, like I don't have a lot of money to give you, but I'll give you my time. And like we're gonna bring the cameras out, we want to tell your story, and we're gonna get behind you with the resources we do have because it might not be a check, but you know, if we like if we do a big event and cover it really well and build hype around it, but it tells the story of some people doing great work in their community, sometimes that's more valuable than the check from the checkbook.

Jason Taylor 10:03

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, people always remember how you made them feel, not always what you gave them, right? 100%. Yeah. What was the point where, you know, you you I'm assuming, based on being a startup, what was the point where you said, okay, I can't do both now? I can't be a police officer and do this. When was the time where you took the risk and said, I'm gonna go uh like I gotta cut it off here? And and best of luck to Winnipeg and the police force and all my friends and and and colleagues I met there, but I I have to go do this. Well, what was that? What was that feeling like? And when did you do that? How long into the journey of startup for Sheepdog? It was really hard.

Shawn Black 10:40

I come from a long line of civil servants, firefighters, cops, veterans. My entire bloodline has been civil servant, people who give. And for a long time I really saw business as selfish. And it might sound weird to people, but it really did. Like I was like, you know, the work I'm doing as a cop and what cops do is so important. I believe in it, and I love the people who still do it. But I had this opportunity where I started Sheepdog with another police officer, and he stepped away, and we're still good friends. And I went for a drive one day, and I'm driving down this street in Winnipeg where there's lots of cafes and bars, and we used to bottle our cold brew coffee in these little glass stubby bottles in the basement of a church. They had a commercial kitchen we could rent. And this lady walked out of the bakery as I'm driving, and I'm on this drive for the purpose of like, I'm just going for a drive to clear my mind and think, you know, if I go all in on this business, my life is changing forever, and there's things that I'm gonna have to do differently. So this lady walks out, pushing a stroller, and it was like like hot summer day out of this cute little bakery that was like one of five customers we had at the time, and she was drinking one of our little bottles of cold brew that I had probably bottled two weeks before, and it was like snapshot out of a catalog. And I was like, go do that more. That's really cool. And I think that's why, like, you know, like how we approach the market with like our initiatives that we do. I don't think I could sleep at night if we didn't do those things. So doing the charity work and showcasing those things, it's so deeply in me to give back that like we have to, it's not an option. So it helped me separate. So that first moment, and then I actually went part-time at the police, and I was working like on a job share program and doing both at the same time. And then I took a leave of absence and I intended to go back, and then it was just like we're doing so much great work here, and we're growing so fast that it was just I can't, I can't go back.

Jason Taylor 12:33

Yeah, what a story. It's it's very inspiring, Sean, to be honest with you. It's it's a very inspiring story. Early on, can you discuss one of the people decisions that you made that quietly shaped sheepdog's culture more than just the mission statement? So, what's a people decision that you made early on in this company that kind of quietly shaped the way you're gonna go and beyond the actual mission statement?

Shawn Black 13:00

I think a big change I made was the first few people I hired, my interview strategy wasn't good. And I was hiring for jobs, and what I do now is very different. And I tell my team this all the time that like we are going on an adventure and we are gonna build something great. And I work with a guy right now as growth consultant, and and his first real career was at Starbucks, and he left school and he worked with Howard Schultz as one of the first employees at Starbucks when they went from few locations to 2,000 or 3,000 stores. And he's been able to hang his hat on that for his entire career that he got to work. And so I what I tell my staff now is like and and I do this in interviews now, it's like when I'm not hiring people to come here and clock in and clock out. If you're coming here, you're a part of something that is gonna be something you can hang your hat on for a long time, and people are gonna talk about it. And I only want people that go, I want to be on an adventure with you. And so that's been the big shift for me is setting right from the ground zero, this is not your normal job. And and then I pair that with crazy incentives. So obviously, free coffee. All of my full-time staff get there's a there's a hockey rink beside us, and they have all of it, the NHL players and the CFL players train out of. So all my full-time staff get personal trainers at the gym, and we do team workouts every Friday. We do lots of events. Most of my staff have been able to go on trips to other cities, Texas, DC, Toronto. We're going to Columbia. So, but with that, it's like you're you're on an adventure with us. And like that's it's not, you're not talking in and talking out. You're here to do something great.

Jason Taylor 14:50

Oh, I want to work for you. I want to work for you, Sean. It it it's that's so inspiring because I'm a massive believer that people love adventure, they love experience, right? And people always remember an experience or an adventure that they had rather than something you just gave them. You know, I can give you a t-shirt and you're like, oh, cool, thanks for the t-shirt. But if I say, hey, why don't we go and do that workout on a Friday? And then afterwards, why don't we go uh for a hike or or go to a game or or whatever? You'll remember that because that's human interaction. And when people have human interaction, it it just it it it stays with them for a long time.

Shawn Black 15:26

Well, and I and I came from union workplace, right? Like the police is unionized and and it's a city budget. So like it's do more with less, and there are no perks. Like, yeah, we're gonna give you a uniform and you don't have to pay for your own gas and a cruiser car, but that's about it. And we're gonna scrutinize every minute of your day. And so for me here, I'm like, that's not the environment that creates phenomenal people. So I've had to come, and that's the interesting part is taking core values that built the system that is the military, is the police, but then combining it with an all-new approach to workplace culture.

Jason Taylor 16:02

Yeah, you have the best of both worlds because you've lived both worlds now. Yeah, pretty powerful. As the company scales, what leadership behavior behavior are you personally working to unlearn? So as the company scales, that you know, now you're you're going from startup to scaling out now. What's that behavior that you you are trying to unlearn in the leadership kind of platform? It's a good question. It's a hard one.

Shawn Black 16:30

I think I just got to see Gary Vaynerchuk speak a couple weeks ago. I got a first row, 10 feet away from Gary V. And he says that at his level, he's spending 20 to 30% of his time on HR. And the only thing that leverages his success is his people. And the big one for me is I'm a doer. I want to be involved all the time, but I I push myself too much sometimes to do too much. So for me, and this is probably cliche, you've probably heard this a hundred times, but having to say no to things and spend more time on making sure that my staff show up with my values that are the company values is more impactful as a leader than me showing up with the values. So if I spend that 25% of my time working with them to understand why we're doing the things we're doing and what what's important and what's not, that's that's more beneficial than me just showing up and doing it myself.

Jason Taylor 17:23

How long did it take for you to earn for your your your company and the the employees and your teammates to earn that trust? And what I mean by that, I want, I wanna, I'm gonna back up a bit. So when you're in a in a startup, you it let's be honest, this has been your child, this has been your baby, right? And you've gone out, you've created something pretty spectacular. You've started from an idea and a concept to building something. Well, wow, we have a roof, we have walls, we have production, we have sales, you know, you've you've done something pretty amazing here. And then all of a sudden we say, Sean, you you know what? We need you to kind of take yourself out of this leadership right now and let your company and everybody kind of run with it. How long did it take you to say, oh, like I don't, I don't feel anxious when I do that now? Or do you still feel anxious when you do it?

Shawn Black 18:14

I think I for sure feel anxious. I think this is a risky way of leading, but I typically give full trust immediately. Because if I hired me, I would want someone to believe and trust in me right away. It's burned me a couple times, but I would say most of the time it's worked out really well. But it exposes me to some risk, giving people complete and total trust off the beginning instead of the other way around where they get no trust and they have to earn it from me. I just, that's not my style. I think the times I do get stressed is typically where I just feel like I haven't spent enough time on the leadership and the coaching. Because it is like everyone has their own personality to bring it to the table. And so I definitely think it's my job to make sure that they understand, like, because maybe I'll back up a little bit. I believe that all of my staff want to do whatever it takes. I just have to make sure that what they think, whatever it takes is, is what's what actually what it takes. And so sometimes when I, you know, I've been on the road a lot lately. Sometimes I feel like when I lose those touch points a bit, I just uh I have to sink back in, realign everybody, listen, and have those meetings. We have a lot of staff meetings, probably more than most companies, but it helps us go smoother and the smoother is faster. So I think that whenever I have too many delays between touch points is when I get the most anxious.

Jason Taylor 19:34

Yeah, yeah, because you almost need those touch points just to get yourself kind of grounded, right?

Shawn Black 19:38

Yeah, I like to know what's happening, but I trust my people as long as I know like where they're going with something and really trying to like really trying to unlock for them. Like I want them to understand the why behind everything. And once I if I know that they understand the why, I have complete confidence they're gonna do what it takes to get there. It's when, but if I feel like, oh, you don't know why we're doing this, that's when I get more stressed. Um and then that's my job. I think that's my job to be like, okay, we need to go back here, you know, rediscover that why, and then we'll get there faster.

Jason Taylor 20:08

Yeah, I I often put that in in a sentence that an athlete once said to me, a very famous athlete said to me once, believe belief feels passion, and passion rarely fails. And the reason he said that to me is I was I was in a meeting and I said, you know what, I wish I could just get these people to kind of go the way I needed them to go. And, you know, I wish I I said actually, I I wish I had this like little rod that I could put in their gut and see if they had passion and see if they're gonna go do it. Right. And he said to me, very, very frankly, he said, Well, he goes, Well, that's your fault. And I go, What do you mean? He goes, Well, you're the coach. And I said, Okay. And I was, I was a little confused. And he said, as a coach, you got to create belief. And once you create that belief, that'll feel the passion. And once passion happens, he goes, It's amazing what happens. You know, passion rarely fails. And it stuck with me. I was a young, I was probably 23, 24 at the time. And it stuck with me, man. Like it was just, okay. And then you're saying the exact same thing. You're saying, like, do they understand the why? Because if they understand the why, they're going to get there. If they don't, what do I need to do to adjust to get to where to where I need them to go, right? Yeah, pretty powerful. Sean, you what I love about you is you don't take yourself too seriously, but you take what you value very seriously. Okay. So, how does that balance show up in how your team experiences you? So they look at Sean and they say, hey, you know what? Uh we like Sean because he doesn't take himself too seriously, really easy to get along with and whatnot. But then I get into those values and you take that very seriously. So how do you balance that amongst your team?

Shawn Black 21:41

I don't know if I always get that right, but I'm working on it. I would say that, like, you know, I'm sitting in my office right now, but it's not my office. My staff can use it anytime. There's nothing that they do that I'm not going to do too. I try as much as I can to not do some of the more menial tasks, but some like So sometimes I have to be like, I'm not doing that. Because I just I don't have the energy or time or it's gonna drain my energy. But like we eat together, we go to the gym together. I don't talk to anyone as if they're beneath me. At least I don't think I do. And the way I see it is they're all very capable adults with their own lives. My position here is maybe quarterback, but like I'm not got. So we're all just working on something, and and my hope for all of them is that they get the success they want in life from Sheet Dog. But and this even goes down to our sales stuff. Like with the girls that work at our store, we're working at events. Like, I the way I coach sales at our store is you're it's not you and the company versus the customer competing over dollars. I want you to walk out from behind the till and I want you to stand with the customer and discover the company together. And it's it's it's all about just being equals, but we have different roles. And you know, sometimes that just means my role has to make decisions that affect other people, but like I I don't I don't have any sort of at least I I certainly hope it never comes across that way. I never want to have a power complex where I think that anyone was beneath me.

Jason Taylor 23:13

Yeah. I I love what you said there because I'm a massive advocate that stories actually sell. And when you said, you know, I I don't I want you to come out from beh behind the counter and I want you to talk and have a conversation. Customers, clients, they remember those stories. They remember those interactions because they don't always remember, you know, a fact, a figure, an analytic that you gave them, but they always remember how you made them feel. And when you have them good story to tell them, it resonates with them and they remember that. And they guess what people want? They want another story, so they come back.

Shawn Black 23:44

Well, this is this policing one-on-one on like cops get complaints all the time, and and and people are like, well, you know, he gave you the ticket. Or people would complain even when we don't give them tickets. And I was never a traffic cop. Like that wasn't I hated, I hated doing traffic duty. I think I gave maybe 10 tickets my whole career, but but like you'd give people a break, but if you'd they'd still complain because of just how you said things. So you could be like, I remember like I'd pull people over and be like, hey, look, you're driving crazy, you're driving so fast. And I and I would I would be a little bit like brash with it. I'd be like, you know, I've been at a few accidents where people were killed and it was awful. I said, can you just drive a bit slower? Because at that speed, the human body is not gonna make it through and accidentally hit a kid. And like, and I would be very like crude with people like that. And then, you know, you still get some complaints. And I was just like, I'm not gonna give you a ticket. I just want you to slow down because I just don't want anyone to get hurt, and people would still complain, right? So, and it didn't matter what the words were that you said, but they just, you know, you stopping them ruined their day because you're the pool. And so, like, the words were irrelevant. It was, but they felt like so scared and upset that you stopped them, even though you were super nice and anything you do to make people feel good will go a long way because the words are irrelevant.

Jason Taylor 24:59

And when you can be honest and transparent and authentic, it's amazing what happened. You know, you just brought my memory back to a story. I was I was driving the car and I was actually, I was kind of daydreaming. I did this stop through a four-way stop, and I'm telling you, it wasn't really a roll, it wasn't even a rolling stop. It was whatever you want to call it, a really quick, quick rolling stop, right? And as I was doing it, I'm looking at I'm looking at the police officer there, and I'm still doing it. And I I did it, and then literally I I went down the street and I pulled over myself. I pulled myself over, and all of a sudden his sirens come in and he comes in behind me and he was shocked. And he goes, he goes, wow. And I said, Oh, I said, what was I thinking? I'm looking right at you. And I said, I'm rolling through the stop. And I he didn't give me a thing, he just gave me a warning, right? But I think he appreciated that. I literally, I thought, well, what the heck am I doing? And I I knew there's not a chance this guy's not gonna come come after me right now. I just looked at him, I saw his eyes. Like, what does he think? What am I thinking? And he just, yeah, it was being about honesty, transparency, and just he let me go. But it was just, you know, it's amazing what happens when you're you're honest, transparent, and authentic when in what you do, right?

Shawn Black 26:07

It's so true.

Jason Taylor 26:08

Sean, what's one mistake the leaders make when they're trying to build purpose-driven cultures that actually weakens trust? They're trying to build a high-performance culture and they're going about it in a way that actually weakens trust. What do you think one of those traits is? Hypocrisy. Oh, I love that. What a great answer.

Shawn Black 26:26

Yeah. I don't think there's anyone that's ever met me that said they outworked me. And like, I also like try to not let stress show. Like, I'm stressed all the time, obviously, but like everything happens for a reason. And you know, you watch that interview with Tom Hanks where he says, This two shall pass, and it's so I think hypocrisy, if you're not if you're not willing to live the same values as you're preaching, that's a hard one. That's a tough one.

Jason Taylor 26:53

Yeah. Sean, I I have two more questions for you. Just being you've been generous with your time today. I know you're running a company there and you you've got a thousand things to do. So I'm gonna I'm just gonna ask you a couple more questions and then I'm gonna let you get on your way because you've been amazing today. One question I want to know is when sheepdog leaders are making decisions without you in the room, okay. So you're not there, what do you hope guides them the most?

Shawn Black 27:14

I think they have to be consumer obsessed. So if my staff make any decision and then they come to me and say, I did this because I felt it was good for a relationship with the customer, or it was good for this, then they will always get an approval from me. But what I don't like is trying to protect the company and being cheap. I hate cheap. I would I would like and even like we talked about this. We we very, very rarely have ever had negative feedback. The only I joke, but the only feedback we get that's negative is either people hate coffee or they hate the cops. So I get a lot of hate people who hate me because I was a cop. But like, but like but we don't really get a lot of complaints about like our customer service is always phenomenal, our product's always great, like so I'm gonna fortunate that way. But we talked about return policy. So if someone is unhappy with anything, Michael, for all of our like if any negative feedback, which is rare, which is why we don't even talk about that often, but is we smother that person with kindness, we we give them twice as much back in return. It's like, you know, you gave us your I'm gonna get a little philosophical, but you traded the only currency you have that you can't get more of, which is time, for money, and then you traded that money for something we made. And I don't take that lightly. So if we've done something that has made you not satisfied, we are gonna give you, if you say, hey, I just wanna like I've I just had a customer today who came by the store. They forgot to keep one of our, we have a concentrated version of our coffee, they forgot to keep it in the fridge, it's their fault. It went moldy. We give we gave them six more bottles in return and a bunch of stickers and said, So sorry that you know we didn't make it clear enough for you to keep it refrigerated. Like, we just want you to love our product, and like we're like just like whatever we can do because people trusted us with something that they they can't get more of time, their time is worth money, and so they gave it to us. And so we're gonna make sure that anytime we have anything, we're going way further than we have to to make sure that respecting people.

Jason Taylor 29:20

I love that. I love how you and you said it so simply and so clearly and quickly. You said, you know, as long as we're thinking of the consumer first, and that is I if I'm in your company, I know that's what's gonna drive the agenda with Sean, and that's how we're gonna make our decision. Sean, last question of the day before I get you before I get you off. You're looking at another person who's founding a company or doing a startup or just has an idea and says, you know what, I want to start whatever, you know, this widget business or this beer business, coffee business, whatever, shirt business, whatever. But they're a young founder and they're looking for one piece of advice from somebody like yourself who has done it and has started to you're you're past a startup and you're scaling now. What's that one piece of advice you give a young founder that's trying to build a company?

Shawn Black 30:10

I think I can speak to like a consumer package good or a lifestyle brand specifically. Like I don't know, maybe this is applicable for everyone, all businesses. And it kind of goes back to being consumer focused. But when I was building out this version of Sheepdog, because when I had my former business partner, the other police officer, the brand was a bit more soft and relaxed. And it was great, but you know, his wife had kind of led the direction on that. I said, okay, well, if I'm gonna do this my way now and they're stepping away, I want this brand to feel completely synergistic with who I am as a person. Because if it's misaligned or it's something I don't understand, or then I always have to like shape shift into some other version of myself to enjoy it. And so now the brand is just an extension of all the things that I love doing. And so my piece of advice is build a business that you're gonna love being working on, and and everything gets easier. So, like for me, I like coffee. I like our branding, I like the things we do, I like my team, I like my customers. I don't like spreadsheets for another. If you send me a spreadsheet, it'll probably take me a couple days to open it and get the courage. But but like make sure that what you're doing is not just for money, make sure it's also more for your soul because it's gonna make it so much easier. Like, just build it for you. And if you do something great, Rick Rubin talks about this when he's coaching artists, musicians. Like, build your best art and put it into the world. Don't build things for other people. And so I I think that build something that that really fires you up.

Jason Taylor 31:41

Yeah. What a what a great answer because I I'm a big believer. It when you do that, it doesn't feel like work, right? It just feels like it's your passion. And when you when you don't feel like you're going to work, all of a sudden you you say, you know what, I don't mind doing this day in, day out, night in, night out, week in, week out, right? So what a phenomenal answer. Sean, you've been you've been outstanding today. And I thank you for your time and I thank you for being a great leader. I'm a massive advocate that the world needs better leaders and different leaders and people that think about culture, because we always remember, you know, the best leaders we've worked with, we also remember the worst leaders we've ever worked with, right? So it's evident and obvious that you are on the right path to grow this company to be absolutely massive. And I am excited to see what happens with Sheepdog because I know that you're so passionate about it and so is your team. And I'm glad to be along for the ride. So thank you, Sean. Thanks, Chase. If you love that session and that conversation as much as I did, would love to have you join our People Playbook community in the link below.